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Post by Teacakes on Jan 18, 2014 8:29:59 GMT
You know what? You're right. There are many forms of badassery. Silent but mysterious. Strong and capable, but not going insane is not one of them. Clem is not badass. One thing that goes for ALL forms of badassery is being able to taking care of yourself. Clem can't do that. In horrible pain and having lost a fair amount of blood, she was able to break into a house, grab a bunch of supplies she needed, stitch up her own wound, and beat a zombie to death when it attacked her out of nowhere. She can take care of herself. Is this some kind of mind trick to make me think Clem's a badass? If by logical argumentation counts as a mind trick then yes. I knew it!
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Post by Teacakes on Jan 18, 2014 8:45:12 GMT
YES! 2,000 POSTS!
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Post by DomeWing333 on Jan 18, 2014 9:04:39 GMT
No, no, you definitely speak before Clem Clem. No, but Lee seems to be the one who does more than most of the work. She didn't think he was dying, so that's more childish stupidity. What if he turned right there and killed her? She wouldn't have done anything. She'd have died. Ok, let's call it this, 60% luck, 40% skill. I mean, if that walker had been intent on getting Clementine, she would have died. Based on the fact that there IS no zombie if you bring her. She HAD to have made some noise or something, and left the door open for it to get in. Lee talks but doesn't take a stance on the issue until after Clem speaks. Look the scene up on Youtube. Kenny says we leave Ben. Then Christa chimes in agreeing with him. Then Clem speaks. Then Christa abstains and asks for Lee's vote. Well Lee finishes him off, sure, but he wouldn't have been able to do so without getting shot if Clem hadn't quietly snuck out of the room that The Stranger was holding her in and distracted him. The point is that she didn't just wait helplessly to get rescued. She was an active and crucial participant in her own escape. So you're saying she should have just left the man who just risked his life to rescue her to be eaten by zombies because he might have been dying? That would have been the better thing to do? She had no idea that he had been bitten; as far as she knew, he just collapsed from exhaustion. Abandoning him there would have been foolish. It was intent on killing her. If you fail the prompt right there, it bites her in the neck and kills her. She was smart enough to push Winston in the way so it grabbed at him instead. And if you don't bring her, Lee somehow becomes a better shot and can save Molly from that walker. Things change in the game when you make a choice. It doesn't necessarily mean anything. Clem's the kind of person who would be super down on herself if she thought that she had let the zombie in the house. Instead, she sounds cheerful and nonchalant about it, as if it was just a minor inconvenience that she had to deal with.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2014 15:57:53 GMT
No, no, you definitely speak before Clem Clem. No, but Lee seems to be the one who does more than most of the work. She didn't think he was dying, so that's more childish stupidity. What if he turned right there and killed her? She wouldn't have done anything. She'd have died. Ok, let's call it this, 60% luck, 40% skill. I mean, if that walker had been intent on getting Clementine, she would have died. Based on the fact that there IS no zombie if you bring her. She HAD to have made some noise or something, and left the door open for it to get in. Lee talks but doesn't take a stance on the issue until after Clem speaks. Look the scene up on Youtube. Kenny says we leave Ben. Then Christa chimes in agreeing with him. Then Clem speaks. Then Christa abstains and asks for Lee's vote. Well Lee finishes him off, sure, but he wouldn't have been able to do so without getting shot if Clem hadn't quietly snuck out of the room that The Stranger was holding her in and distracted him. The point is that she didn't just wait helplessly to get rescued. She was an active and crucial participant in her own escape. So you're saying she should have just left the man who just risked his life to rescue her to be eaten by zombies because he might have been dying? That would have been the better thing to do? She had no idea that he had been bitten; as far as she knew, he just collapsed from exhaustion. Abandoning him there would have been foolish. It was intent on killing her. If you fail the prompt right there, it bites her in the neck and kills her. She was smart enough to push Winston in the way so it grabbed at him instead. And if you don't bring her, Lee somehow becomes a better shot and can save Molly from that walker. Things change in the game when you make a choice. It doesn't necessarily mean anything. Clem's the kind of person who would be super down on herself if she thought that she had let the zombie in the house. Instead, she sounds cheerful and nonchalant about it, as if it was just a minor inconvenience that she had to deal with. You can vouch for or against Ben, I count that as taking a stance. This one is more like Batman being saved by someone else. Are the people who save Batman usually badass? No. Not usually. Also, I think if Clem hadn't come out, Lee would've been able to get him while he was talking to the bowling bag. If she had really adapted to the apocalypse, then yes. Yes she would have. Seeing someone faint in a world where people can die because of one fuck up, she should have left him. Granted, he wasn't dead there, but that was the smart thing to do. But the fact of the matter is that she DID bring the zombie in somehow. I never even knew that zombie existed until my third or fourth playthrough. If taking Clem out of the house means the zombie doesn't come in, then she is directly responsible.
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Post by DomeWing333 on Jan 18, 2014 20:22:53 GMT
Okay. Some of the dialogue before that was more pro-Ben than others. So in one case she was facing down two angry adults alone, in the other she was facing down two angry adults with one other adult somewhat on her side. In either case, doing what she did when you're just a little kid and doing it as assertively as she did takes nerves.
The people who save Batman aren't usually badass, but saving Batman is a pretty badass thing to do, and that's what we're trying to determine.
That would have made her a cold-hearted asshole, not the person she wants to be. Someone who lets the world around them dictate who they are is not as badass as someone opposes it out of a conviction in their principles. One of the reasons Batman is badass because despite his world being cruel, violent and full of meaningless death and destruction, he refuses to abandon his principles and kill someone, even though it would be the easier thing to do.
It could have been a lot of things. Maybe Omid made some noise that attracted the zombie. Maybe the Stranger was hanging out outside and attracted the zombie. Maybe it was just a random butterfly-effect kind of thing triggered by events that we didn't get to see. You don't know and unless you do, it makes no sense to say that Clem was responsible for it. But what you do know is that Clem on her own was able to deal with a zombie who barged into the house and tried to get upstairs, thereby saving Omid.
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Post by Bioshock Infinite WD on Jan 18, 2014 20:46:24 GMT
Okay I am late to the party here, so here I go. Which badass are we talking about? She is badass in the sense she can handle her own, and she is still alive, I do not want her to be a badass like Michone or hell some of my favorite game characters, I guess I would love her to stay a innocent little girl, but we all know that is a pipe dream and a half.
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Post by That Doom Guy on Jan 18, 2014 21:28:54 GMT
7 votes > 4 votes
Badass confirmed!
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Post by Teacakes on Jan 18, 2014 21:56:11 GMT
I am literally going to scream.
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Post by That Doom Guy on Jan 18, 2014 22:07:56 GMT
I am literally going to scream. lol see what I did there? I made people change their votes, now it's even.
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Post by IDEK on Jan 18, 2014 22:10:17 GMT
I am literally going to scream. lol see what I did there? I made people change their votes, now it's even. nope
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Post by That Doom Guy on Jan 18, 2014 22:12:15 GMT
lol see what I did there? I made people change their votes, now it's even. nope Yes! My plan keeps working!
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Post by IDEK on Jan 18, 2014 22:13:37 GMT
Yes! My plan keeps working! and then it baklhdahfhajh's.
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Post by That Doom Guy on Jan 18, 2014 22:15:41 GMT
Yes! My plan keeps working! and then it baklhdahfhajh's. lol, I just posted that, because I knew how easy that would manipulate the poll. People are so predictable
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Post by IDEK on Jan 18, 2014 22:17:41 GMT
and then it baklhdahfhajh's. lol, I just posted that, because I knew how easy that would manipulate the poll. People are so predictable true dat. Also baklhdahfhajh is the correct term for what you did.
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Post by wakemeup on Jan 18, 2014 22:18:22 GMT
Lee talks but doesn't take a stance on the issue until after Clem speaks. Look the scene up on Youtube. Kenny says we leave Ben. Then Christa chimes in agreeing with him. Then Clem speaks. Then Christa abstains and asks for Lee's vote. Well Lee finishes him off, sure, but he wouldn't have been able to do so without getting shot if Clem hadn't quietly snuck out of the room that The Stranger was holding her in and distracted him. The point is that she didn't just wait helplessly to get rescued. She was an active and crucial participant in her own escape. So you're saying she should have just left the man who just risked his life to rescue her to be eaten by zombies because he might have been dying? That would have been the better thing to do? She had no idea that he had been bitten; as far as she knew, he just collapsed from exhaustion. Abandoning him there would have been foolish. It was intent on killing her. If you fail the prompt right there, it bites her in the neck and kills her. She was smart enough to push Winston in the way so it grabbed at him instead. And if you don't bring her, Lee somehow becomes a better shot and can save Molly from that walker. Things change in the game when you make a choice. It doesn't necessarily mean anything. Clem's the kind of person who would be super down on herself if she thought that she had let the zombie in the house. Instead, she sounds cheerful and nonchalant about it, as if it was just a minor inconvenience that she had to deal with. If she had really adapted to the apocalypse, then yes. Yes she would have. Seeing someone faint in a world where people can die because of one fuck up, she should have left him. Granted, he wasn't dead there, but that was the smart thing to do. Are you fucking serious? You think a little, innocent girl would've just left a man, who was like a father to her and risked his life to save her, to die? He could've passed out from exhaustion for all she knew, she didn't see the bite back then. I know I wouldn't leave Lee on her place and I'm the guy who made pragmatic decisions most of the time. Dropping Ben was also a smart thing to do and did you do it?
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