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Post by DomeWing333 on Jan 17, 2014 22:23:07 GMT
If killing people without getting hurt is the mark of being a badass then BATMAN isn't a badass. You know what? You're right. There are many forms of badassery. Silent but mysterious. Strong and capable, but not going insane is not one of them. Clem is not badass. One thing that goes for ALL forms of badassery is being able to taking care of yourself. Clem can't do that. In horrible pain and having lost a fair amount of blood, she was able to break into a house, grab a bunch of supplies she needed, stitch up her own wound, and beat a zombie to death when it attacked her out of nowhere. She can take care of herself. Is this some kind of mind trick to make me think Clem's a badass? If by logical argumentation counts as a mind trick then yes.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2014 22:44:33 GMT
You know what? You're right. There are many forms of badassery. Silent but mysterious. Strong and capable, but not going insane is not one of them. Clem is not badass. One thing that goes for ALL forms of badassery is being able to taking care of yourself. Clem can't do that. In horrible pain and having lost a fair amount of blood, she was able to break into a house, grab a bunch of supplies she needed, stitch up her own wound, and beat a zombie to death when it attacked her out of nowhere. She can take care of herself. After 10-15 minutes on her own, Clementine gets herself bitten by a dog, and nearly dies because of her mistake. She then gets lucky when a house meeting is called, and two of the more compassionate members of the house are luckily able to help. Luck, luck, luck. Luck is not taking care of yourself.
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Post by DomeWing333 on Jan 17, 2014 22:52:06 GMT
After 10 minutes of being on his own Lee gets himself bitten by a walker and actually dies because of it. Just as a stroke of good luck does not make you a badass, stroke of bad luck doesn't stop you from being a badass.
Clem needed help, yes. But needing help doesn't mean that you're weak. Badasses sometimes need help. Batman gets rescued by luck/other people all the damn time.
The important thing is that she has done extremely brave and impressive things by herself that were only made more impressive by the fact that she's a small little girl.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2014 22:58:59 GMT
Other than stitch her arm, she's done literally nothing impressive. You're right, badasses do get saved by luck, but other than that, she's done nothing. And getting saved is a neutral mark on the badassery levels. Here's everything she did that could possibly count for badassery: She (determinately) saved Molly. She was accidentally responsible for the deaths of Ben (determinate), Kenny, and Lee. She (determinately) killed He Who Must Not Be Named. She accidentally got Omid killed ( ) She stitched up her arm. She (determinately) saved a life. (She doesn't save Nick, she just runs to him. She does, however, save Pete, if you choose so)
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Post by DomeWing333 on Jan 17, 2014 23:09:14 GMT
She stood up for Ben because it was the right thing to do, even though every adult around her disagreed at the time She silently escaped from a room and hit The Stranger in the back of his head to distract him She dragged a 200 lbs man to safety after seeing her zombified parents She escaped a city full of walkers by herself She took down a full-grown man who was trying to capture and possibly kill her She took down the zombie in the shed despite being alone and wounded
Also, even though she determinately saved Molly, she definitely saved someone, since if you leave her at the house, she either traps or kills a zombie who would have eaten Omid.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2014 23:15:59 GMT
Let's go through the list.
That's determinate. Lee can vouch for Ben. While Lee was distracting him. She was invisible to the walkers. She was invisible to the walkers. By luck. Ok, that one works.
Only if you give her a gun. And she must've been the one who brought it into the house in the first place.
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Post by DomeWing333 on Jan 17, 2014 23:30:42 GMT
I said "at the time." She spoke up before Lee said anything. And her speaking up caused Christa to change her mind. So, what every time Batman takes down an enemy who was distracted it doesn't count? (Yes, I know I'm using Batman a lot but it's relevant) Still requires and great deal of strength and courage to carry on and not break down then and there. She just saw her worst nightmare come true, her guardian just collapsed, and she's surrounded by death. She had to be resourceful enough to know what to do and strong enough to do it. Luck alone couldn't have done that. She was scrappy and resourceful....like Batman Based on WHAT? There's nothing that indicates that that's what happened. And if you don't giver her a gun, she still manages to trap it and keep it from attacking her or Omid.
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Post by That Doom Guy on Jan 18, 2014 0:33:10 GMT
Wow, I just got back and I missed this entire thread. Hmm, looks like Clem is a badass! Hells yeah!
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Post by That Doom Guy on Jan 18, 2014 0:36:55 GMT
You know what? You're right. There are many forms of badassery. Silent but mysterious. Strong and capable, but not going insane is not one of them. Clem is not badass. One thing that goes for ALL forms of badassery is being able to taking care of yourself. Clem can't do that. In horrible pain and having lost a fair amount of blood, she was able to break into a house, grab a bunch of supplies she needed, stitch up her own wound, and beat a zombie to death when it attacked her out of nowhere. She can take care of herself. Is this some kind of mind trick to make me think Clem's a badass? If by logical argumentation counts as a mind trick then yes. lol, earlier Dome I tried to tell them that you proved she was a badass, just not the type of badass they were probably thinking of, But they wouldn't have it.
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Post by DomeWing333 on Jan 18, 2014 0:41:37 GMT
Well, she's not your typical badass so I get the hesitation with calling her one. But I think she's done enough badass things to be considered badass by this point.
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Post by That Doom Guy on Jan 18, 2014 0:41:59 GMT
If killing people without getting hurt is the mark of being a badass then BATMAN isn't a badass. You know what? You're right. There are many forms of badassery. Silent but mysterious. Strong and capable, but not going insane is not one of them. Clem is not badass. One thing that goes for ALL forms of badassery is being able to taking care of yourself. Clem can't do that. Clem can't take care of herself?
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Post by That Doom Guy on Jan 18, 2014 0:42:56 GMT
Well, she's not your typical badass so I get the hesitation with calling her one. But I think she's done enough badass things to be considered badass by this point. I have no hesitation, She's a badass plain and simple, She does whatever it takes to survive, That's a badass in my book.
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Post by DomeWing333 on Jan 18, 2014 0:49:12 GMT
Eh, not quite. Lilly did whatever it took to survive and that didn't make her badass. It's the ability to do what it takes to survive combined with the willpower to overcome incredible odds that makes Clem a badass.
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Post by That Doom Guy on Jan 18, 2014 0:50:22 GMT
Eh, not quite. Lilly did whatever it took to survive and that didn't make her badass. It's the ability to do what it takes to survive combined with the willpower to overcome incredible odds that makes Clem a badass. Nailed it!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2014 3:45:47 GMT
I said "at the time." She spoke up before Lee said anything. And her speaking up caused Christa to change her mind. So, what every time Batman takes down an enemy who was distracted it doesn't count? (Yes, I know I'm using Batman a lot but it's relevant) Still requires and great deal of strength and courage to carry on and not break down then and there. She just saw her worst nightmare come true, her guardian just collapsed, and she's surrounded by death. She had to be resourceful enough to know what to do and strong enough to do it. Luck alone couldn't have done that. She was scrappy and resourceful.... like BatmanBased on WHAT? There's nothing that indicates that that's what happened. And if you don't giver her a gun, she still manages to trap it and keep it from attacking her or Omid. No, no, you definitely speak before Clem Clem. No, but Lee seems to be the one who does more than most of the work. She didn't think he was dying, so that's more childish stupidity. What if he turned right there and killed her? She wouldn't have done anything. She'd have died. Ok, let's call it this, 60% luck, 40% skill. I mean, if that walker had been intent on getting Clementine, she would have died. Based on the fact that there IS no zombie if you bring her. She HAD to have made some noise or something, and left the door open for it to get in.
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