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Post by DomeWing333 on Jan 19, 2014 21:47:59 GMT
Luck alone doesn't count for anything if you don't have the courage to take the risk and the ability to capitalize on it.
There are plenty of people out there who do "whatever it takes" to survive. I don't consider most of those people badasses. Being ruthless in a shitty world is easy. Clem is special because she stays true to her humanity and still survives. That's why she's a symbol of hope.
He had little reason to risk it though. If he could've easily taken Clem then and there, great. But he was a patient, plotting son of a bitch with a master plan. No need to take unnecessary risks.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2014 22:09:56 GMT
Luck alone doesn't count for anything if you don't have the courage to take the risk and the ability to capitalize on it. There are plenty of people out there who do "whatever it takes" to survive. I don't consider most of those people badasses. Being ruthless in a shitty world is easy. Clem is special because she stays true to her humanity and still survives. That's why she's a symbol of hope. He had little reason to risk it though. If he could've easily taken Clem then and there, great. But he was a patient, plotting son of a bitch with a master plan. No need to take unnecessary risks. The only reason she DID though was because of the situation. It was the man who had never let her down, except for one time, versus the man who she wasn't sure was going to hurt her. By LUCK. And luck is not badass. Well that was an extremely unnecessary risk. Imagine if Clem had died right there. Camp man's "master plan" would've been fucked. Now that I think about it, it COULDN'T have been him. He scolded Lee for putting her into dangerous situations, yet he would let a zombie go in and munch her? It doesn't make sense.
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Post by DomeWing333 on Jan 19, 2014 22:20:44 GMT
Or to put it another way, the unarmed, possibly one-armed man, versus the crazy guy with the gun. It takes a lot nerve to act from a position of little power and as a small child shut-off in a room by a psychopath with a gun, she had no power.
By a combination of luck, skill, and courage. That's what 90% of heroic acts are.
Because The Stranger was 100% logical. Because the entirety of that final conversation wasn't just him projecting his inability to keep his children safe onto Lee.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2014 22:23:22 GMT
Or to put it another way, the unarmed, possibly one-armed man, versus the crazy guy with the gun. It takes a lot nerve to act from a position of little power and as a small child shut-off in a room by a psychopath with a gun, she had no power. By a combination of luck, skill, and courage. That's what 90% of heroic acts are. Because The Stranger was 100% logical. Because the entirety of that final conversation wasn't just him projecting his inability to keep his children safe onto Lee. The crazy man that treated her kindly. This was more luck and stupidity. No skill. No courage. But with all that in his head, there's no way in hell that he would let her die there.
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Post by DomeWing333 on Jan 19, 2014 22:42:00 GMT
In his mind, maybe. But certainly not hers. He lied to her about her parents, showed her his wife's zombified head in a bag, kept her locked in a room, forced her to say goodbye to Lee over the walkie-talkie, and was about to kill Lee with her in the other room. By that point she saw him as a dangerous bad guy like Lee told her he was.
If she wasn't resourceful she wouldn't have figured to drag him to a secure place like the jewelry store. If she wasn't courageous, she would have ran or broken down at the site of her zombified parents.
He might have just ran away as soon as he saw it, not realizing that it would get into the house.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2014 22:47:12 GMT
In his mind, maybe. But certainly not hers. He lied to her about her parents, showed her his wife's zombified head in a bag, kept her locked in a room, forced her to say goodbye to Lee over the walkie-talkie, and was about to kill Lee with her in the other room. By that point she saw him as a dangerous bad guy like Lee told her he was. If she wasn't resourceful she wouldn't have figured to drag him to a secure place like the jewelry store. If she wasn't courageous, she would have ran or broken down at the site of her zombified parents. He might have just ran away as soon as he saw it, not realizing that it would get into the house. Which would compel her to sic her guardian on him, wouldn't it? Anyone would've hit the stranger in that situation. Fuck, even BEN would've done the same, bless his soul. It isn't that resourceful to think of somewhere safe... He survived months of the apocalypse. One zombie wouldn't scare him.
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Post by DomeWing333 on Jan 19, 2014 23:05:57 GMT
Ben would have tugged on the rope too hard, broken the handle off, alerted The Stranger and gotten both him and Lee killed. Or he wouldn't have left the room at all because he's too much of a wimp to try and escape and help Lee. By leaving the room, she put herself in more danger because she wanted to save Lee, because The Stranger might have shot her if he were startled like a certain pit stop scavenger.
She was in a completely new city and surrounded by zombies. It took quick thinking to identify what she needed to do there. Very few other kids would have had the wherewithal to handle that situation at all.
He survived for months because he knew better than to take risks when he didn't need to. The zombie didn't necessarily scare him, but its presence was enough for him to abandon his impulse to just break in and take Clem.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2014 23:13:38 GMT
Ben would have tugged on the rope too hard, broken the handle off, alerted The Stranger and gotten both him and Lee killed. Or he wouldn't have left the room at all because he's too much of a wimp to try and escape and help Lee. By leaving the room, she put herself in more danger because she wanted to save Lee, because The Stranger might have shot her if he were startled like a certain pit stop scavenger. She was in a completely new city and surrounded by zombies. It took quick thinking to identify what she needed to do there. Very few other kids would have had the wherewithal to handle that situation at all. He survived for months because he knew better than to take risks when he didn't need to. The zombie didn't necessarily scare him, but its presence was enough for him to abandon his impulse to just break in and take Clem. Don't you DARE remind me of that. Anyways, let's change that Ben to, I don't know, Doug, or Larry. They wouldn't have just been complacent with this asshole. And granted, Larry hated Lee a shit ton, but if there's anything his final moments can tell us, it's that people who have directly wronged him are worse in his eyes than Lee, so he would have helped. But that's just what comes with surviving this long into the apocalypse. But he survived in that fucking dust. With ALL those zombies. He must've gone down the tracks after Lee's group, or around the tracks, meaning that he'd have seen the zombies. The horde that was following Lee. One zombie wouldn't stand between him and Clementine when hundreds more were on their way.
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Post by DomeWing333 on Jan 19, 2014 23:29:40 GMT
Doug, probably. Doug was a brave, smart motherfucker. Larry *might* have tried to save Lee but he would have certainly been...less than tactful.
And so by doing that, she's proven that she's up to the task. Plus that courage stuff.
Never really saw him deal with zombies (aside from his wife but that's another matter) so I can't speak for how he'd usually handle them. But he's going to be pretty nervous and on edge trying to break in, not knowing when Lee would return. The slightest thing would have scared him off.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2014 23:32:33 GMT
Doug, probably. Doug was a brave, smart motherfucker. Larry *might* have tried to save Lee but he would have certainly been...less than tactful. And so by doing that, she's proven that she's up to the task. Plus that courage stuff. Never really saw him deal with zombies (aside from his wife but that's another matter) so I can't speak for how he'd usually handle them. But he's going to be pretty nervous and on edge trying to break in, not knowing when Lee would return. The slightest thing would have scared him off. Somebody should make a badass Doug picture. Doug is the coolest dude in the whole game. That proves that she hasn't died yet, though, only by luck in this situation, due to Lee's condition. Well he took his wife's head off. I'd say after that, that shooting one in the head seems pretty tame.
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Post by DomeWing333 on Jan 19, 2014 23:51:28 GMT
I think if you asked pretty much every person who's alive in The Walking Dead why they haven't died yet, they'll tell you that it was by luck. Skill, cleverness, and determination nominate you for survival in this world but it's luck that's the ultimate elector. That's true for everyone, not just Clem.
I'm not saying he couldn't do it if he needed to. I'm saying he didn't need to so he didn't.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2014 0:00:09 GMT
I think if you asked pretty much every person who's alive in The Walking Dead why they haven't died yet, they'll tell you that it was by luck. Skill, cleverness, and determination nominate you for survival in this world but it's luck that's the ultimate elector. That's true for everyone, not just Clem. I'm not saying he couldn't do it if he needed to. I'm saying he didn't need to so he didn't. I don't know, man. Lee didn't seem especially lucky up until his bite. Even still, he survived that long based on skill. Like when he broke out of the meat locker using a quarter that he had prior knowledge of. Or hopping into the sewer when the walkers were coming for him. He needed to for his master plan. So he did need to.
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Post by DomeWing333 on Jan 20, 2014 0:04:32 GMT
He was lucky Clem was small enough to climb through the vent. He was lucky Clem was there and able to convince Molly to help him.
He didn't need to kidnap her right then and there. It would have made his job a bit easier if he were able to but he was still able to get her in the end.
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Post by wakemeup on Jan 20, 2014 0:06:09 GMT
I think if you asked pretty much every person who's alive in The Walking Dead why they haven't died yet, they'll tell you that it was by luck. Skill, cleverness, and determination nominate you for survival in this world but it's luck that's the ultimate elector. That's true for everyone, not just Clem. I'm not saying he couldn't do it if he needed to. I'm saying he didn't need to so he didn't. I don't know, man. Lee didn't seem especially lucky up until his bite. Even still, he survived that long based on skill. Like when he broke out of the meat locker using a quarter that he had prior knowledge of. Or hopping into the sewer when the walkers were coming for him. He needed to for his master plan. So he did need to. Finding an abandoned station wagon, full of supplies, in the forest was a lot of luck. It didn't turn out well after all, but Lee and his group would probably die without that food. Shit, he wouldn't survive the first week without luck, Clem's babysitter would've killed him if he hadn't met Clem. Still, he really survived thanks to his skill most of the time, but that's not enough.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2014 0:08:42 GMT
He was lucky Clem was small enough to climb through the vent. He was lucky Clem was there and able to convince Molly to help him. He didn't need to kidnap her right then and there. It would have made his job a bit easier if he were able to but he was still able to get her in the end. Ok, the few MOMENTS of luck. But considering how few and far apart they are from Clementine's lucky moments, Lee is definitely a lot more skillful and corageous. No, but if she had DIED that wouldn't have worked well for anyone.
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