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Post by Bioshock Infinite WD on Sept 8, 2015 15:57:25 GMT
Maybe the guy that plays Nick is just a shitty actor and he's trying to appear sincere, but isn't coming across as so. I mean, the guy is most famous for playing Lord Voldemort as a teenager in Half-Blood Prince sooo it's not crazy to think that. Actually for me, he is famous only because his dad is the guy who played Stannis on Game of Thrones.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2015 1:11:14 GMT
I wouldn't call his voice "filled" with sarcasm and smugness, but when nobody believes you, and you really genuinely try, I wouldn't hold it against a person to be bitter. Also, "getting yourself hooked" is another shitty way to judge someone. Everyone's life takes different paths, man. Whether it was social pressure, frustration with authority, or whatever else that made Nick do it, unless he said, "I know this will fuck me up, and by relation, my family too, but FUCK everyone else! I want to do this!" Nick's not a shitty person JUST for being a junkie. Junkies aren't evil people, Rock. Addiction almost always sprouts from either extreme insecurity, or mental illness. It seems wrong to judge someone on that basis alone. Granted, Nick DID seem like a little punk in the hospital, but that sort of attitude doesn't generally sprout out of nowhere. That attitude comes from conflict with authority. Not to mention, as soon as the police were gone, and Nick started to calm down, he confided in Travis, asking for help, and showing real human emotions, thus PROVING that it was only the cops who brought out the punk in him. Every other interaction he's had with his family since the hospital has been nothing but loving, and regretful. I don't think you went too far when you said he'd be doing his family a favor by dying. Shit, just about anyone who isn't a parent would do their family a favor by dying. No, you went too far when you called him a junkie piece of shit. When you implied that his substance abuse in any way MAKES him a bad person. Substance abuse can be a symptom of being a bad person, but it can also be a symptom of so much more. To make that connection, would be the same as assuming that someone gaining an abnormal amount of weight has to be depressed. It's just stupid. Social pressure and being frustrated with authority are not good reasons to start shooting heroin, Harp. I don't care if his friends pressured him into doing it, or he decided to be a rebel because "Down with the system" or whatever, drug abuse is really really really dumb. Unless he was held down and forced at gunpoint to start using, then he made the conscious choice to inject himself with a substance that he almost certainly had to have known would be bad for him and the people he cared about. At best he's incredibly stupid/ignorant, at worst he really did say "Fuck everyone else, I want to do this." Your previous post convinced me to lean more toward being ignorant instead of being a straight up asshole but the choice to begin using an addictive substance was just that, a choice, one that he made and is now suffering for. Nobody has to start doing drugs, no matter where their life takes them. Unless it's stated that somehow it really wasn't his choice to start using then it's on him, and I can't really feel sorry for him. I'll admit that he is shown to be getting better so far so I'm willing to reverse my current opinion of "Fuck Nick" if this good streak for him continues, but as of right now I can't really bring myself to like him. From what we know so far his addiction is his own fault. You don't go from feeling shitty straight to shooting herion, Rock. It's through gateway drugs. Weed, cocaine, cough syrup, so many things can be BUILDUP to heroin. Also, you shouldn't hold everyone to the standards you hold yourself at, Rock. Everyone has different situations, different this, different that. It's NEVER fair to hold someone to your own expectations. Also, at best, he was able to mostly control himself with weed, or whatever gateway drug he used, and had too little faith in the authorities telling him what to do to believe that he really COULDN'T control himself with heroin. That's the at best, and it's also the most likely. I've never met a single person, in all my years who was the "Fuck everyone" guy, and ended up on heroin. Sure, they probably exist, in celebrities and rich people especially. The rest had different stories. Different reasons. Pain, fear, illness. They all shared lack of faith in authority. That's not their bad, that's the bad of the people who were supposed to raise and protect them. I'll tell you one of their stories, so maybe you can understand. M had a bad family. Abusive, mean spirited, and uncaring, especially towards her, being the daughter of a second marriage. When she was 13, M was raped by a strange man. The following year, her parents divorced. Around the time of the divorce, M came to the conclusion that she was "emotionally retarded", because she cared, when nobody else in her life seemed to. Because of this, M began to steal cigarettes, she began to ditch classes, she began to do mean things to boyfriends, all to be more "normal", when in reality, she hated what she was doing. Imagine the pain that someone like M felt in that moment. Now imagine being given a substance that makes you forget about all that. Imagine that substance making you feel better than you ever could in the rest of your life. It helps you forget, it helps you have fun. The substance helps you connect with people you would have never known before, it gives you a life, it gives you a face and a name, it gives you stories to tell and experiences you want to relive. Now imagine that substance weakening. You don't feel as strongly when you take it. But there's this other substance, which people you have began to associate with at this point take regularly, and these people relate to how you feel. They're in pain, like you, they felt the weakening of their life-saving substance, just as you do, and then they started taking another, now their problems are solved. It's a magical little thing that you stick yourself with, and suddenly, the pain is GONE. It's stronger than the other substances ever were. Even in the beginning. The lines in the sand change, Rock. It's fucking sand. Depending on what's going on, who's where, who you care about, what you do, or whatever else, all of that influences where your line is. And for junkies, the line starts with, "I'll never go past cigarettes," to "I'll never go harder than cocaine," to "Fuck this heroin shit is good." It's rarely stupidity. It's rarely rebellion. Not to mention, peer pressure is far more serious than you seem to think. It's extremely influential to people who were raised wrong, and who weren't ever told to be themselves, or to stick to their beliefs. Judging someone for giving into peer pressure is like judging someone who eats too much. They just weren't taught the best way to live, or were taught by bad teachers, and are paying the goddamned price for it. Don't you EVER draw a hard line like that. It's wrong in the worst of ways.
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Post by Rock114 on Sept 9, 2015 2:08:41 GMT
Social pressure and being frustrated with authority are not good reasons to start shooting heroin, Harp. I don't care if his friends pressured him into doing it, or he decided to be a rebel because "Down with the system" or whatever, drug abuse is really really really dumb. Unless he was held down and forced at gunpoint to start using, then he made the conscious choice to inject himself with a substance that he almost certainly had to have known would be bad for him and the people he cared about. At best he's incredibly stupid/ignorant, at worst he really did say "Fuck everyone else, I want to do this." Your previous post convinced me to lean more toward being ignorant instead of being a straight up asshole but the choice to begin using an addictive substance was just that, a choice, one that he made and is now suffering for. Nobody has to start doing drugs, no matter where their life takes them. Unless it's stated that somehow it really wasn't his choice to start using then it's on him, and I can't really feel sorry for him. I'll admit that he is shown to be getting better so far so I'm willing to reverse my current opinion of "Fuck Nick" if this good streak for him continues, but as of right now I can't really bring myself to like him. From what we know so far his addiction is his own fault. You don't go from feeling shitty straight to shooting herion, Rock. It's through gateway drugs. Weed, cocaine, cough syrup, so many things can be BUILDUP to heroin. Also, you shouldn't hold everyone to the standards you hold yourself at, Rock. Everyone has different situations, different this, different that. It's NEVER fair to hold someone to your own expectations. Also, at best, he was able to mostly control himself with weed, or whatever gateway drug he used, and had too little faith in the authorities telling him what to do to believe that he really COULDN'T control himself with heroin. That's the at best, and it's also the most likely. I've never met a single person, in all my years who was the "Fuck everyone" guy, and ended up on heroin. Sure, they probably exist, in celebrities and rich people especially. The rest had different stories. Different reasons. Pain, fear, illness. They all shared lack of faith in authority. That's not their bad, that's the bad of the people who were supposed to raise and protect them. I'll tell you one of their stories, so maybe you can understand. M had a bad family. Abusive, mean spirited, and uncaring, especially towards her, being the daughter of a second marriage. When she was 13, M was raped by a strange man. The following year, her parents divorced. Around the time of the divorce, M came to the conclusion that she was "emotionally retarded", because she cared, when nobody else in her life seemed to. Because of this, M began to steal cigarettes, she began to ditch classes, she began to do mean things to boyfriends, all to be more "normal", when in reality, she hated what she was doing. Imagine the pain that someone like M felt in that moment. Now imagine being given a substance that makes you forget about all that. Imagine that substance making you feel better than you ever could in the rest of your life. It helps you forget, it helps you have fun. The substance helps you connect with people you would have never known before, it gives you a life, it gives you a face and a name, it gives you stories to tell and experiences you want to relive. Now imagine that substance weakening. You don't feel as strongly when you take it. But there's this other substance, which people you have began to associate with at this point take regularly, and these people relate to how you feel. They're in pain, like you, they felt the weakening of their life-saving substance, just as you do, and then they started taking another, now their problems are solved. It's a magical little thing that you stick yourself with, and suddenly, the pain is GONE. It's stronger than the other substances ever were. Even in the beginning. The lines in the sand change, Rock. It's fucking sand. Depending on what's going on, who's where, who you care about, what you do, or whatever else, all of that influences where your line is. And for junkies, the line starts with, "I'll never go past cigarettes," to "I'll never go harder than cocaine," to "Fuck this heroin shit is good." It's rarely stupidity. It's rarely rebellion. Not to mention, peer pressure is far more serious than you seem to think. It's extremely influential to people who were raised wrong, and who weren't ever told to be themselves, or to stick to their beliefs. Judging someone for giving into peer pressure is like judging someone who eats too much. They just weren't taught the best way to live, or were taught by bad teachers, and are paying the goddamned price for it. Don't you EVER draw a hard line like that. It's wrong in the worst of ways. I suppose I can understand why M would start using, because that stuff is extremely fucked up, but I still don't agree with it and it's still wrong. She isn't a "Junkie piece of shit" in my eyes like Nick is, I see her more as the victim of an extremely difficult and cruel life. I don't hate her. She isn't one of the people I despise. When I say "Junkie piece of shit" I'm talking about the "Fuck everyone" guys, who I have met and are some of the worst people I've ever known. That's my experience with junkies. People abusing a substance because they can and willfully shitting all over other people because they feel tough and superior because of the fact they're jacking themselves full of poison. But looking back I suppose you do have a point about my use of the word "Junkie." I was being judgmental and making sweeping generalizations in my original post about Nick because he reminded me so much of those assholes while he was in the hospital (And I do maintain that he sounded full of sarcasm and smugness, like he could get away with anything) but I guess I shouldn't use the word "Junkie" like an insult, since people do end up becoming junkies due to personal tragedy or a harsh life. And I hate to admit it but I did know that when I made that post, I just wasn't thinking and applied the word as derogatory when talking about Nick (Who I maintain is still kind of an asshole, though he's getting better and isn't on the same level as the pricks I know as of the second Episode). So that idiotic, sweeping branding of all junkies as low life assholes is entirely on me, and I apologize. I should have used a different word, or at least put some thought into that post instead of typing out whatever hateful words came into my mind without considering what they actually mean. As much as I dislike and disagree with drug use for any reason at all, people like M shouldn't be getting insulted by people like me, and I didn't intend to insult them. I feel sorry for them. The only people I meant insult to were people like the jackasses I've known in my life and people like them, which is the way I saw Nick in that first Episode. Using the word "Junkie" like that was stupid and inconsiderate of me. I was wrong to use it like I did, and I'm sorry.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2015 2:55:10 GMT
You don't go from feeling shitty straight to shooting herion, Rock. It's through gateway drugs. Weed, cocaine, cough syrup, so many things can be BUILDUP to heroin. Also, you shouldn't hold everyone to the standards you hold yourself at, Rock. Everyone has different situations, different this, different that. It's NEVER fair to hold someone to your own expectations. Also, at best, he was able to mostly control himself with weed, or whatever gateway drug he used, and had too little faith in the authorities telling him what to do to believe that he really COULDN'T control himself with heroin. That's the at best, and it's also the most likely. I've never met a single person, in all my years who was the "Fuck everyone" guy, and ended up on heroin. Sure, they probably exist, in celebrities and rich people especially. The rest had different stories. Different reasons. Pain, fear, illness. They all shared lack of faith in authority. That's not their bad, that's the bad of the people who were supposed to raise and protect them. I'll tell you one of their stories, so maybe you can understand. M had a bad family. Abusive, mean spirited, and uncaring, especially towards her, being the daughter of a second marriage. When she was 13, M was raped by a strange man. The following year, her parents divorced. Around the time of the divorce, M came to the conclusion that she was "emotionally retarded", because she cared, when nobody else in her life seemed to. Because of this, M began to steal cigarettes, she began to ditch classes, she began to do mean things to boyfriends, all to be more "normal", when in reality, she hated what she was doing. Imagine the pain that someone like M felt in that moment. Now imagine being given a substance that makes you forget about all that. Imagine that substance making you feel better than you ever could in the rest of your life. It helps you forget, it helps you have fun. The substance helps you connect with people you would have never known before, it gives you a life, it gives you a face and a name, it gives you stories to tell and experiences you want to relive. Now imagine that substance weakening. You don't feel as strongly when you take it. But there's this other substance, which people you have began to associate with at this point take regularly, and these people relate to how you feel. They're in pain, like you, they felt the weakening of their life-saving substance, just as you do, and then they started taking another, now their problems are solved. It's a magical little thing that you stick yourself with, and suddenly, the pain is GONE. It's stronger than the other substances ever were. Even in the beginning. The lines in the sand change, Rock. It's fucking sand. Depending on what's going on, who's where, who you care about, what you do, or whatever else, all of that influences where your line is. And for junkies, the line starts with, "I'll never go past cigarettes," to "I'll never go harder than cocaine," to "Fuck this heroin shit is good." It's rarely stupidity. It's rarely rebellion. Not to mention, peer pressure is far more serious than you seem to think. It's extremely influential to people who were raised wrong, and who weren't ever told to be themselves, or to stick to their beliefs. Judging someone for giving into peer pressure is like judging someone who eats too much. They just weren't taught the best way to live, or were taught by bad teachers, and are paying the goddamned price for it. Don't you EVER draw a hard line like that. It's wrong in the worst of ways. I suppose I can understand why M would start using, because that stuff is extremely fucked up, but I still don't agree with it and it's still wrong. She isn't a "Junkie piece of shit" in my eyes like Nick is, I see her more as the victim of an extremely difficult and cruel life. I don't hate her. She isn't one of the people I despise. When I say "Junkie piece of shit" I'm talking about the "Fuck everyone" guys, who I have met and are some of the worst people I've ever known. That's my experience with junkies. People abusing a substance because they can and willfully shitting all over other people because they feel tough and superior because of the fact they're jacking themselves full of poison. But looking back I suppose you do have a point about my use of the word "Junkie." I was being judgmental and making sweeping generalizations in my original post about Nick because he reminded me so much of those assholes while he was in the hospital (And I do maintain that he sounded full of sarcasm and smugness, like he could get away with anything) but I guess I shouldn't use the word "Junkie" like an insult, since people do end up becoming junkies due to personal tragedy or a harsh life. And I hate to admit it but I did know that when I made that post, I just wasn't thinking and applied the word as derogatory when talking about Nick (Who I maintain is still kind of an asshole, though he's getting better and isn't on the same level as the pricks I know as of the second Episode). So that idiotic, sweeping branding of all junkies as low life assholes is entirely on me, and I apologize. I should have used a different word, or at least put some thought into that post instead of typing out whatever hateful words came into my mind without considering what they actually mean. As much as I dislike and disagree with drug use for any reason at all, people like M shouldn't be getting insulted by people like me, and I didn't intend to insult them. I feel sorry for them. The only people I meant insult to were people like the jackasses I've known in my life and people like them, which is the way I saw Nick in that first Episode. Using the word "Junkie" like that was stupid and inconsiderate of me. I was wrong to use it like I did, and I'm sorry. You know what, Rock, disagree with it all you like, I disagree with it too. Just don't fucking JUDGE people because of it. As for Nick, you have NO IDEA what made him start using. As for your "junkie pieces of shit", I don't doubt that at least a good portion of them have mental illness, or situations similar to the situation of M. It's not fair to assume that Nick is an asshole like that. The statistical vast majority of heavy users of hard drugs are ILL, or have had SERIOUS trauma. As for the word junkie, it's just a word. It's how you use it that's offensive. The way you make it seem like drugs are THE reason Nick is a bad person. Calling him a punk asshole is fine. A junkie piece of shit, where junkie is the defining characteristic, is NOT. As for how Nick interacted with people in the hospital, that's also entirely fine. He was jacked up, being interrogated by both the police and his family. He wasn't in his right mind there. Note how the dialogue in that scene has a different tone than EVERY other Nick scene. Even M gets like that, Rock. Every person I know who has had repeated encounters with the police acts like Nick did in that scene. In fact, Nick was far more graceful and polite about it than many many people are. As for the jackasses you know, on a less intense note, I find it hard to believe that all of them are the douchebag rebels we've been talking about, and I really think you ought to keep a neutral opinion of them. Not to make any generalizations, but I'm guessing that you don't know their entire stories. If you do, and it's still that bad, just remember that you aren't a psychologist. You can't make those distinctions. Even if one of them TELLS you they did something just because fuck everyone else, that's STILL not to be trusted. People might not want to share their trauma, or their illness with someone, especially when that someone seems to judge the ever-living SHIT out of them. M only told me what she told me because I'm closely related to her, and also because I have a special little talent for getting people to open up to me. It's VERY hard to get the full real truth. So don't judge anyone. Bad people do exist, but you and I aren't going to find them. It takes years of training, and a very soothing personality to get even a fragment of the truth sometimes.
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Post by Rock114 on Sept 9, 2015 3:48:20 GMT
I suppose I can understand why M would start using, because that stuff is extremely fucked up, but I still don't agree with it and it's still wrong. She isn't a "Junkie piece of shit" in my eyes like Nick is, I see her more as the victim of an extremely difficult and cruel life. I don't hate her. She isn't one of the people I despise. When I say "Junkie piece of shit" I'm talking about the "Fuck everyone" guys, who I have met and are some of the worst people I've ever known. That's my experience with junkies. People abusing a substance because they can and willfully shitting all over other people because they feel tough and superior because of the fact they're jacking themselves full of poison. But looking back I suppose you do have a point about my use of the word "Junkie." I was being judgmental and making sweeping generalizations in my original post about Nick because he reminded me so much of those assholes while he was in the hospital (And I do maintain that he sounded full of sarcasm and smugness, like he could get away with anything) but I guess I shouldn't use the word "Junkie" like an insult, since people do end up becoming junkies due to personal tragedy or a harsh life. And I hate to admit it but I did know that when I made that post, I just wasn't thinking and applied the word as derogatory when talking about Nick (Who I maintain is still kind of an asshole, though he's getting better and isn't on the same level as the pricks I know as of the second Episode). So that idiotic, sweeping branding of all junkies as low life assholes is entirely on me, and I apologize. I should have used a different word, or at least put some thought into that post instead of typing out whatever hateful words came into my mind without considering what they actually mean. As much as I dislike and disagree with drug use for any reason at all, people like M shouldn't be getting insulted by people like me, and I didn't intend to insult them. I feel sorry for them. The only people I meant insult to were people like the jackasses I've known in my life and people like them, which is the way I saw Nick in that first Episode. Using the word "Junkie" like that was stupid and inconsiderate of me. I was wrong to use it like I did, and I'm sorry. You know what, Rock, disagree with it all you like, I disagree with it too. Just don't fucking JUDGE people because of it. As for Nick, you have NO IDEA what made him start using. As for your "junkie pieces of shit", I don't doubt that at least a good portion of them have mental illness, or situations similar to the situation of M. It's not fair to assume that Nick is an asshole like that. The statistical vast majority of heavy users of hard drugs are ILL, or have had SERIOUS trauma. As for the word junkie, it's just a word. It's how you use it that's offensive. The way you make it seem like drugs are THE reason Nick is a bad person. Calling him a punk asshole is fine. A junkie piece of shit, where junkie is the defining characteristic, is NOT. As for how Nick interacted with people in the hospital, that's also entirely fine. He was jacked up, being interrogated by both the police and his family. He wasn't in his right mind there. Note how the dialogue in that scene has a different tone than EVERY other Nick scene. Even M gets like that, Rock. Every person I know who has had repeated encounters with the police acts like Nick did in that scene. In fact, Nick was far more graceful and polite about it than many many people are. As for the jackasses you know, on a less intense note, I find it hard to believe that all of them are the douchebag rebels we've been talking about, and I really think you ought to keep a neutral opinion of them. Not to make any generalizations, but I'm guessing that you don't know their entire stories. If you do, and it's still that bad, just remember that you aren't a psychologist. You can't make those distinctions. Even if one of them TELLS you they did something just because fuck everyone else, that's STILL not to be trusted. People might not want to share their trauma, or their illness with someone, especially when that someone seems to judge the ever-living SHIT out of them. M only told me what she told me because I'm closely related to her, and also because I have a special little talent for getting people to open up to me. It's VERY hard to get the full real truth. So don't judge anyone. Bad people do exist, but you and I aren't going to find them. It takes years of training, and a very soothing personality to get even a fragment of the truth sometimes. And I apologized for using the word "Junkie" that way. You're right, it was wrong of me. I admitted that. What else can I do? EDIT: I just realized that Nick's father hasn't really been around, or hardly mentioned to my knowledge. I suppose his sudden death or departure is likely to be what spurred Nick to substance abuse. That never really occurred to me until just now, so I guess Nick really is more of the tragic kind than the asshole kind. I guess I have to concede that he isn't as big of an ass as I thought. As for the jackasses I know, all signs point to them being assholes. One in particular I knew for a couple years since we hung out with the same group of friends. I always tried to act like a decent person around him since I didn't want to cause any drama, but over the years he repaid that by stealing things from my house and belittling me for any reason he could find. He even bragged about the fact that he used drugs like it made him better than me, with a huge smile on his face as he said it. He loved reminding me how he was somehow superior to me. I met his family several times and they seemed like good people. Eventually I decided I'd had enough of his crap and cut ties with him. I didn't want to put up with that anymore. The drug users in my life have all been some variation of poisonous bullies. They treated me and others just so horribly that I don't know a better word to describe them with than "Douchebag."
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Post by Shepard on Sept 9, 2015 21:22:13 GMT
Show is decent. I like Travis, Nick and Tobias.
Not a fan of Madison though. Alicia's hot but so far that's all that's going for her for me right now.
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Post by Niccc on Sept 9, 2015 21:35:07 GMT
Holy walls of fucking text. jezus.
Anyways. Next episode should be kickass
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Post by Rock114 on Sept 9, 2015 22:16:39 GMT
Holy walls of fucking text. jezus. Sorry about that.
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Post by Autobot Sonic on Sept 9, 2015 23:37:46 GMT
*Came here to talk about hype for episode 3, finds Rock and Harp in a heated debate about some stupid junkie.*
K Den.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2015 0:18:02 GMT
You know what, Rock, disagree with it all you like, I disagree with it too. Just don't fucking JUDGE people because of it. As for Nick, you have NO IDEA what made him start using. As for your "junkie pieces of shit", I don't doubt that at least a good portion of them have mental illness, or situations similar to the situation of M. It's not fair to assume that Nick is an asshole like that. The statistical vast majority of heavy users of hard drugs are ILL, or have had SERIOUS trauma. As for the word junkie, it's just a word. It's how you use it that's offensive. The way you make it seem like drugs are THE reason Nick is a bad person. Calling him a punk asshole is fine. A junkie piece of shit, where junkie is the defining characteristic, is NOT. As for how Nick interacted with people in the hospital, that's also entirely fine. He was jacked up, being interrogated by both the police and his family. He wasn't in his right mind there. Note how the dialogue in that scene has a different tone than EVERY other Nick scene. Even M gets like that, Rock. Every person I know who has had repeated encounters with the police acts like Nick did in that scene. In fact, Nick was far more graceful and polite about it than many many people are. As for the jackasses you know, on a less intense note, I find it hard to believe that all of them are the douchebag rebels we've been talking about, and I really think you ought to keep a neutral opinion of them. Not to make any generalizations, but I'm guessing that you don't know their entire stories. If you do, and it's still that bad, just remember that you aren't a psychologist. You can't make those distinctions. Even if one of them TELLS you they did something just because fuck everyone else, that's STILL not to be trusted. People might not want to share their trauma, or their illness with someone, especially when that someone seems to judge the ever-living SHIT out of them. M only told me what she told me because I'm closely related to her, and also because I have a special little talent for getting people to open up to me. It's VERY hard to get the full real truth. So don't judge anyone. Bad people do exist, but you and I aren't going to find them. It takes years of training, and a very soothing personality to get even a fragment of the truth sometimes. And I apologized for using the word "Junkie" that way. You're right, it was wrong of me. I admitted that. What else can I do? EDIT: I just realized that Nick's father hasn't really been around, or hardly mentioned to my knowledge. I suppose his sudden death or departure is likely to be what spurred Nick to substance abuse. That never really occurred to me until just now, so I guess Nick really is more of the tragic kind than the asshole kind. I guess I have to concede that he isn't as big of an ass as I thought. As for the jackasses I know, all signs point to them being assholes. One in particular I knew for a couple years since we hung out with the same group of friends. I always tried to act like a decent person around him since I didn't want to cause any drama, but over the years he repaid that by stealing things from my house and belittling me for any reason he could find. He even bragged about the fact that he used drugs like it made him better than me, with a huge smile on his face as he said it. He loved reminding me how he was somehow superior to me. I met his family several times and they seemed like good people. Eventually I decided I'd had enough of his crap and cut ties with him. I didn't want to put up with that anymore. The drug users in my life have all been some variation of poisonous bullies. They treated me and others just so horribly that I don't know a better word to describe them with than "Douchebag." Oh. I thought you were saying that you were sorry that you used junkie the word, rather than the intent behind it. That's all I was pointing out. Another alternate solution which would give an even better explanation for Nick's behavior is if Nick's father was abusive. If Nick's father was abusive, that would not only be excuse enough for Nick to turn to drugs, but if his mother was a good person from the start, that would explain why Nick snitched on his little sister. His mom was always trustworthy and awesome. The rules of not being a snitch just don't apply when you're talking to dear old mom. Having an abusive father is also the most common backstory for a morally controversial protagonist. On top of that, an abusive father would also plant the seeds of anti-establishment that we see when Nick encounters the police. That kid sounds mentally ill. He could be coping with serious trauma, just like M, but from that description, he sounds mentally unstable at best. Keep in mind, I'm not saying you should tolerate his behavior, or anybody else being dicks to you. Cutting ties was the right thing to do in that situation for sure. That kid is a poisonous bully. What I am saying is that you shouldn't make a definite judgement on him. You can dislike him, you can think he's kinda shitty, but don't flat out call him a bad person. Seriously, any story from one perspective is pretty unreliable. For instance, here's M's story from another perspective: "So I was at a party, and I met this girl M. We were both drunk/high, and we were both looking to hook up with someone, so we ended up sleeping together that night. A few days later, and we decided that we should start dating. We would go out, eat, watch a movie, drink, or anything else, and generally, we would end up at my house, we would smoke some, and we would sleep together. Some time later, I was really starting to feel something for her. I came up to her one day in the halls, and she acted like she didn't know me. I tried to talk to her, and she started cussing at me, calling me names, and all that shit. I seriously felt something for her, and she led me on, letting me think she felt something for me too. She ended up getting pregnant at 17, and having 2 abusive husbands. I still can't tell if she's an evil bitch or straight up stupid." You should also keep in mind that not all drug users let drugs become a part of their identities. Personally, almost all of my friends are at least light potheads. Most of them keep it close to the chest. Only close friends ever see them high or hear about their drug use. Not all drug users are pained. Some are just normal people, who have a smoke once every couple weeks. Some only smoke when they're with friends, and only when everybody decides that they're comfortable with smoking. I realize that you probably know that these types of people exist, but I don't know for sure. Just covering my bases.
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Post by Rock114 on Sept 10, 2015 1:23:53 GMT
And I apologized for using the word "Junkie" that way. You're right, it was wrong of me. I admitted that. What else can I do? EDIT: I just realized that Nick's father hasn't really been around, or hardly mentioned to my knowledge. I suppose his sudden death or departure is likely to be what spurred Nick to substance abuse. That never really occurred to me until just now, so I guess Nick really is more of the tragic kind than the asshole kind. I guess I have to concede that he isn't as big of an ass as I thought. As for the jackasses I know, all signs point to them being assholes. One in particular I knew for a couple years since we hung out with the same group of friends. I always tried to act like a decent person around him since I didn't want to cause any drama, but over the years he repaid that by stealing things from my house and belittling me for any reason he could find. He even bragged about the fact that he used drugs like it made him better than me, with a huge smile on his face as he said it. He loved reminding me how he was somehow superior to me. I met his family several times and they seemed like good people. Eventually I decided I'd had enough of his crap and cut ties with him. I didn't want to put up with that anymore. The drug users in my life have all been some variation of poisonous bullies. They treated me and others just so horribly that I don't know a better word to describe them with than "Douchebag." Oh. I thought you were saying that you were sorry that you used junkie the word, rather than the intent behind it. That's all I was pointing out. Another alternate solution which would give an even better explanation for Nick's behavior is if Nick's father was abusive. If Nick's father was abusive, that would not only be excuse enough for Nick to turn to drugs, but if his mother was a good person from the start, that would explain why Nick snitched on his little sister. His mom was always trustworthy and awesome. The rules of not being a snitch just don't apply when you're talking to dear old mom. Having an abusive father is also the most common backstory for a morally controversial protagonist. On top of that, an abusive father would also plant the seeds of anti-establishment that we see when Nick encounters the police. That kid sounds mentally ill. He could be coping with serious trauma, just like M, but from that description, he sounds mentally unstable at best. Keep in mind, I'm not saying you should tolerate his behavior, or anybody else being dicks to you. Cutting ties was the right thing to do in that situation for sure. That kid is a poisonous bully. What I am saying is that you shouldn't make a definite judgement on him. You can dislike him, you can think he's kinda shitty, but don't flat out call him a bad person. Seriously, any story from one perspective is pretty unreliable. For instance, here's M's story from another perspective: "So I was at a party, and I met this girl M. We were both drunk/high, and we were both looking to hook up with someone, so we ended up sleeping together that night. A few days later, and we decided that we should start dating. We would go out, eat, watch a movie, drink, or anything else, and generally, we would end up at my house, we would smoke some, and we would sleep together. Some time later, I was really starting to feel something for her. I came up to her one day in the halls, and she acted like she didn't know me. I tried to talk to her, and she started cussing at me, calling me names, and all that shit. I seriously felt something for her, and she led me on, letting me think she felt something for me too. She ended up getting pregnant at 17, and having 2 abusive husbands. I still can't tell if she's an evil bitch or straight up stupid." You should also keep in mind that not all drug users let drugs become a part of their identities. Personally, almost all of my friends are at least light potheads. Most of them keep it close to the chest. Only close friends ever see them high or hear about their drug use. Not all drug users are pained. Some are just normal people, who have a smoke once every couple weeks. Some only smoke when they're with friends, and only when everybody decides that they're comfortable with smoking. I realize that you probably know that these types of people exist, but I don't know for sure. Just covering my bases. I suppose I really shouldn't make a definitive judgement on if he's bad or not, but it really became hard to think of him as anything but bad after being on the receiving end of that for so long. And I'm aware that he very well might have viewed our "Friendship" differently, and likely knows some important things that I don't. My Journalism course drilled that into all of us week one and I firmly believe in that, even if I find it difficult at times to see him in another way. I have a friend like that as well, who uses light stuff and only very rarely. He's actually my best friend. We talk about Star Trek, I drive him to college every day, constantly crack jokes, all that stuff. And he's a light pothead himself. He hardly ever mentions it and has a smoke probably, say, once or twice a month. He's a cool guy. Should we cut this discussion off here? It seems other people aren't taking kindly to the Great Text Wall of China that we've erected in this thread and want to go back to discussing/hyping the show.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2015 4:56:06 GMT
Oh. I thought you were saying that you were sorry that you used junkie the word, rather than the intent behind it. That's all I was pointing out. Another alternate solution which would give an even better explanation for Nick's behavior is if Nick's father was abusive. If Nick's father was abusive, that would not only be excuse enough for Nick to turn to drugs, but if his mother was a good person from the start, that would explain why Nick snitched on his little sister. His mom was always trustworthy and awesome. The rules of not being a snitch just don't apply when you're talking to dear old mom. Having an abusive father is also the most common backstory for a morally controversial protagonist. On top of that, an abusive father would also plant the seeds of anti-establishment that we see when Nick encounters the police. That kid sounds mentally ill. He could be coping with serious trauma, just like M, but from that description, he sounds mentally unstable at best. Keep in mind, I'm not saying you should tolerate his behavior, or anybody else being dicks to you. Cutting ties was the right thing to do in that situation for sure. That kid is a poisonous bully. What I am saying is that you shouldn't make a definite judgement on him. You can dislike him, you can think he's kinda shitty, but don't flat out call him a bad person. Seriously, any story from one perspective is pretty unreliable. For instance, here's M's story from another perspective: "So I was at a party, and I met this girl M. We were both drunk/high, and we were both looking to hook up with someone, so we ended up sleeping together that night. A few days later, and we decided that we should start dating. We would go out, eat, watch a movie, drink, or anything else, and generally, we would end up at my house, we would smoke some, and we would sleep together. Some time later, I was really starting to feel something for her. I came up to her one day in the halls, and she acted like she didn't know me. I tried to talk to her, and she started cussing at me, calling me names, and all that shit. I seriously felt something for her, and she led me on, letting me think she felt something for me too. She ended up getting pregnant at 17, and having 2 abusive husbands. I still can't tell if she's an evil bitch or straight up stupid." You should also keep in mind that not all drug users let drugs become a part of their identities. Personally, almost all of my friends are at least light potheads. Most of them keep it close to the chest. Only close friends ever see them high or hear about their drug use. Not all drug users are pained. Some are just normal people, who have a smoke once every couple weeks. Some only smoke when they're with friends, and only when everybody decides that they're comfortable with smoking. I realize that you probably know that these types of people exist, but I don't know for sure. Just covering my bases. I suppose I really shouldn't make a definitive judgement on if he's bad or not, but it really became hard to think of him as anything but bad after being on the receiving end of that for so long. And I'm aware that he very well might have viewed our "Friendship" differently, and likely knows some important things that I don't. My Journalism course drilled that into all of us week one and I firmly believe in that, even if I find it difficult at times to see him in another way. I have a friend like that as well, who uses light stuff and only very rarely. He's actually my best friend. We talk about Star Trek, I drive him to college every day, constantly crack jokes, all that stuff. And he's a light pothead himself. He hardly ever mentions it and has a smoke probably, say, once or twice a month. He's a cool guy. Should we cut this discussion off here? It seems other people aren't taking kindly to the Great Text Wall of China that we've erected in this thread and want to go back to discussing/hyping the show. Yeah. Cutting this off seems good right now. We got out of the way everything worth saying. Good talk burhburh.
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Post by Niccc on Sept 21, 2015 2:10:37 GMT
Tonight's episode sucked IMO
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Post by sos on Sept 21, 2015 2:25:41 GMT
Tonight's episode sucked IMO Didn't watch it yet, but I thought the preview for it looked atrocious.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2015 2:49:07 GMT
Tonight's episode sucked IMO Honestly I liked it better than all the others so far, but there were still so many stupid things in it. :/ Not really liking this show much overall.
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