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Post by Rock114 on Mar 29, 2018 5:39:17 GMT
wow. I could not disagree with you more. In harm's way is the absolute worst episode of non ANF Telltale episodes. It over promised, under delivered, and had exactly two scenes of any value whatsoever. The beatings were decent, and lent themselves to future good scenes with Kenny, but overall, they were the only even almost positive memorable pieces of that episode. What else even happened? Kenny acted like an asshole, lip service was paid to 400 Days, Jane killed that one kissass who just teleported in out of nowhere, Alvin did nothing but die, Nick got two lines, there was a celebrity cameo that served no purpose other than basically saying fuck Sarah, more people randomly died. And it goes on like that. Amid the Ruins, for all its flaws, for the BS with Jane and Arvo, and the dumb Nick death, at least had one scene that I remember fondly. The same cannot be said about even any moment in IHW. Okay, Pete had the best death scene, FINALLY. SOMEONE ELSE SAYS IT. YEEEEEEEEEEEE.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2018 5:41:27 GMT
lol I've been saying that all along. Pete's death in Episode Two is like... one of the best moments of Season Two tbh
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Post by Rock114 on Mar 29, 2018 5:45:42 GMT
I may have forgotten since it's been so long. Regardless, I'll always show my support for any Pete appreciation that pops up.
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Post by thatstoo2019man on Mar 29, 2018 6:47:18 GMT
Looking back, s2 wasn't that bad. It really suffered from killing the hype. Like episode 4 and it's slide. Everyone was expecting something great seeing Clem with the blood smeared face and that hooded guy who looked like Eddie. And then the episode came and nothing of that kind happened. Also the Russians, still can't comprehend how someone thought it would be a good idea.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2018 7:12:12 GMT
Looking back, s2 wasn't that bad. It really suffered from killing the hype. Like episode 4 and it's slide. Everyone was expecting something great seeing Clem with the blood smeared face and that hooded guy who looked like Eddie. And then the episode came and nothing of that kind happened. Also the Russians, still can't comprehend how someone thought it would be a good idea. Personally, I hated it, and continue to hate it because of the treatment of the characters in this story. The only ones who really struck me as being handled right were Pete, Sarah and Clem, and Clem's got a big asterisk. Made some hyper competant stealth action star, but overall, I appreciated how her trauma was incorporated into how she thinks and acts. Meanwhile, Sarah played like Ben with even less hope. Her death on the balcony was rushed, but I appreciated how it was treated in terms of an emotional obstacle for Clem. And Pete was Pete. Great. Every other character sucked ass. Kenny was okay, but only because he hogged like half of all the screentime. Nick was great, but he was axed way too soon. Don't even mention Jane. What a fucking train wreck. And we barely got to know anybody else before they bit the dust. None of their deaths were at all impactful. Just either "really?" Or "finally!" Nothing in between. I almost feel like you're giving the themes of this season too much credit. Don't forget, most of those themes were just crammed down our throats, and the views of other characters were kinda just forced onto Clementine. Like one walk with Jane, where she says some edgy shit that no real human would ever say, and all of a sudden, Clementine's reading Nietzsche. And sure, there's something to be said for the fact that Clementine is her own character with her own opinions, but if those controversial opinions are so vital to the theme, then maybe a TTG game is not the place to explore those themes. TWDS1 worked thematically because it examined what you would do to protect you and your own. Batman worked because it showed that sometimes, you can't save someone from themselves, no matter how hard you try. Joker is only safe in Arkham. Not even Batman can save him from his disease. These theme heavy games incorporate choice into their themes, and they give you room to make those choices. S2 just doesn't do that. Clem's choices are impotent, and it's a game about powerlessness, but it's just sold SO poorly.
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Post by Niccc on Mar 29, 2018 7:45:37 GMT
Looking back, s2 wasn't that bad. It really suffered from killing the hype. Like episode 4 and it's slide. Everyone was expecting something great seeing Clem with the blood smeared face and that hooded guy who looked like Eddie. And then the episode came and nothing of that kind happened. Also the Russians, still can't comprehend how someone thought it would be a good idea. That hooded guy didn't just LOOK like Eddie, it WAS Eddie. Telltale just wrote him out of the story for some reason.
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Post by Tormundo on Mar 29, 2018 11:05:29 GMT
I wouldn't be able to do an objective analysis of ATR. In all honesty, it might've been shit, but I liked it regardless Idk how that works exactly. But yeah, in retrospective I think I really liked season two (after seeing the ANF shitshow). It was good enough I guess, even thought I don't really think the themes in it are something the writers aimed for, it just seems so random and inconsistent, but yeah I don't know. Just blabbing here and writing my thoughts.
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Post by Tormundo on Mar 29, 2018 11:09:39 GMT
Looking back, s2 wasn't that bad. It really suffered from killing the hype. Like episode 4 and it's slide. Everyone was expecting something great seeing Clem with the blood smeared face and that hooded guy who looked like Eddie. And then the episode came and nothing of that kind happened. Also the Russians, still can't comprehend how someone thought it would be a good idea. The russians sound so ridiculous in paper. Imagine how their outline went like: " The group travels in the winter after fighting herds of walkers in a museum. Jane leaves the group to travel on her own...AND SUDDENLY A GROUP OF BIG AND STRONG FUCKIN' RUSSIANS APPEAR WITH MACHINE GUNS AND SHOTGUNS AND THREATHEN THE GROUP, SHOOTING ALL THEIR GUNS BEFORE THE EPISODE ENDS!!!!! (but no one dies haha)"
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2018 16:40:29 GMT
It's fucking wild how In Harm's Way, Amid the Ruins, and No Going Back all had their own writer's rooms and someone thought that was a good idea. Seriously, those three episodes feel like they're from completely different versions of the season. They all set up stuff that the subsequent episodes completely ignore, or in the case of No Going Back which was an unholy amalgamation of various Lead Writers from throughout the season, it felt like each of them wanted to follow up on stuff from the episodes they wrote beforehand. This season was just so poorly managed. I do think that if Telltale had decided to assign one writer's room with one Season Lead(WHY WOULD YOU DO ANYTHING ELSE?) Season Two could've been great.
Anyway, I'd just like to clarify, I don't actually think Season Two was great or anything. I find t very hard to judge as a whole, mostly because it's so fragmented and incohesive when taken as a whole. I guess I gave it a 7/10 on the poll for this thread, but only because I do believe it has some legitimately great writing, and the main problem was poor management.
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Post by Bioshock Infinite WD on Mar 29, 2018 16:51:24 GMT
It's fucking wild how In Harm's Way, Amid the Ruins, and No Going Back all had their own writer's rooms and someone thought that was a good idea. Seriously, those three episodes feel like they're from completely different versions of the season. They all set up stuff that the subsequent episodes completely ignore, or in the case of No Going Back which was an unholy amalgamation of various Lead Writers from throughout the season, it felt like each of them wanted to follow up on stuff from the episodes they wrote beforehand. This season was just so poorly managed. I do think that if Telltale had decided to assign one writer's room with one Season Lead(WHY WOULD YOU DO ANYTHING ELSE?) Season Two could've been great. Anyway, I'd just like to clarify, I don't actually think Season Two was great or anything. I find t very hard to judge as a whole, mostly because it's so fragmented and incohesive when taken as a whole. I guess I gave it a 7/10 on the poll for this thread, but only because I do believe it has some legitimately great writing, and the main problem was poor management. No Going Back has some great moments. And some real headscratchers. The quiet campfire scene is great! The opening sucks. The idea of the final choice is good. Wasn't executed very well. The Kenny endings are great and the emotions are genuine. The Jane endings all suck and feel hollow.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2018 17:00:24 GMT
It's fucking wild how In Harm's Way, Amid the Ruins, and No Going Back all had their own writer's rooms and someone thought that was a good idea. Seriously, those three episodes feel like they're from completely different versions of the season. They all set up stuff that the subsequent episodes completely ignore, or in the case of No Going Back which was an unholy amalgamation of various Lead Writers from throughout the season, it felt like each of them wanted to follow up on stuff from the episodes they wrote beforehand. This season was just so poorly managed. I do think that if Telltale had decided to assign one writer's room with one Season Lead(WHY WOULD YOU DO ANYTHING ELSE?) Season Two could've been great. Anyway, I'd just like to clarify, I don't actually think Season Two was great or anything. I find t very hard to judge as a whole, mostly because it's so fragmented and incohesive when taken as a whole. I guess I gave it a 7/10 on the poll for this thread, but only because I do believe it has some legitimately great writing, and the main problem was poor management. No Going Back has some great moments. And some real headscratchers. The quiet campfire scene is great! The opening sucks. The idea of the final choice is good. Wasn't executed very well. The Kenny endings are great and the emotions are genuine. The Jane endings all suck and feel hollow. I'd argue that everything about the final choice is flawed. For one, it's emotionally manipulative. Now, I get that all stories are, on some level, emotionally manipulative, but this one is so by breaking the established characterizations and pacing. Just like Kenny took up way too much screentime, Jane takes up an inordinate amount of screentime in this episode because they needed to rush to humanize her, otherwise, no one would care about her. It takes time away from everyone else, making the conclusions to their storyarcs feel even more hollow than they already would have been. Just as Jane is humanized, Kenny acts wildly out of character in order to make us hate him. Outside of that brief moment at the campsite, Kenny is all aggression and violence all the time in this episode. So, the lead up to the choice is all wrong(as you would expect, given that Kenny's original foil, Luke, is unceremoniously killed off halfway through the episode). The situation that causes the choice to arise itself makes no sense. Jane is all about survival. Yeah, she cares about Clem, but given how we've seen her act in episodes 3 and 4, she would leave Clem behind without a second thought if it meant saving her own life. That is completely thrown out the window in finale, where Jane is willing to kill and die to prove to Clem that.... if you pretend to kill a man's adopted child... he'll get violent... okay. So, not only does Jane's plan just not make sense logically, which is... fine, I guess, but the fact that she has to act so wildly out of character in order to get her into a position where she could be killed is ludicrous, and it maes her cease to feel like a real character. See also: killing herself when she finds out she's pregnant. Character-wise, wouldn't it make more sense to like... I don't know, have her die because of a failed attempted abortion? I mean, that probably would've been too graphic for Telltale, but... killing herself? Really? The fight between Kenny and Jane works exactly once, the frst time someone plays the episode, and is caught up in the emotional climax of it. Any time after that, it's blatantly emotionally manipulative writing.
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Post by Bioshock Infinite WD on Mar 29, 2018 17:12:58 GMT
No Going Back has some great moments. And some real headscratchers. The quiet campfire scene is great! The opening sucks. The idea of the final choice is good. Wasn't executed very well. The Kenny endings are great and the emotions are genuine. The Jane endings all suck and feel hollow. I'd argue that everything about the final choice is flawed. For one, it's emotionally manipulative. Now, I get that all stories are, on some level, emotionally manipulative, but this one is so by breaking the established characterizations and pacing. Just like Kenny took up way too much screentime, Jane takes up an inordinate amount of screentime in this episode because they needed to rush to humanize her, otherwise, no one would care about her. It takes time away from everyone else, making the conclusions to their storyarcs feel even more hollow than they already would have been. Just as Jane is humanized, Kenny acts wildly out of character in order to make us hate him. Outside of that brief moment at the campsite, Kenny is all aggressionΒ and violence all the time in this episode. So, the lead up to the choice is all wrong(as you would expect, given that Kenny's original foil, Luke, is unceremoniously killed off halfway through the episode). The situation that causes the choice to arise itself makes no sense. Jane is all about survival. Yeah, she cares about Clem, but given how we've seen her act in episodes 3 and 4, she would leave Clem behind without a second thought if it meant saving her own life. That is completely thrown out the window in finale, where Jane is willing to kill and die to prove to Clem that.... if you pretend to kill a man's adopted child... he'll get violent... okay. So, not only does Jane's plan just not make sense logically, which is... fine, I guess, but the fact that she has to act so wildly out of character in order to get her into a position where she could be killed is ludicrous, and it maes her cease to feel like a real character. See also: killing herself when she finds out she's pregnant. Character-wise, wouldn't it make more sense to like... I don't know, have her die because of a failed attempted abortion? I mean, that probably would've been too graphic for Telltale, but... killing herself? Really? The fight between Kenny and Jane works exactly once, the frst time someone plays the episode, and is caught up in the emotional climax of it. Any time after that, it's blatantly emotionally manipulative writing. I meant in theory more when it was Luke V Kenny, that would have worked. With Jane, nah. Not really. And her "death" is extreme bullshit and wildly out of character.
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Post by Tormundo on Mar 29, 2018 18:01:08 GMT
No Going Back has some great moments. And some real headscratchers. The quiet campfire scene is great! The opening sucks. The idea of the final choice is good. Wasn't executed very well. The Kenny endings are great and the emotions are genuine. The Jane endings all suck and feel hollow. where Jane is willing to kill and die to prove to Clem that.... if you pretend to kill a man's adopted child... he'll get violent... okay. This bothered me A LOT when I played it. I'm sure there were better ways to make Jane be empathetic :/
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Post by sos on Mar 30, 2018 2:10:27 GMT
I mean I don't think Kenny was overly aggressive or irrational at all.
We all have a little pent up aggression towards those that aren't like us to start so imagine if he were part of a group that tried to steal your shit and murder you even if you did nothing wrong? I would treat Arvo like absolute DOG SHIT as well.
As for the Jane thing? It's been discussed many times. If you thought Jane just gave up and let a baby get eaten to save her own skin, I'd try to kill her too.
It was an asininely one-sided choice. The only ones that put down Kenny were the ones that were waiting for any little excuse to.
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Post by Bioshock Infinite WD on Mar 30, 2018 4:47:02 GMT
I mean I don't think Kenny was overly aggressive or irrational at all. We all have a little pent up aggression towards those that aren't like us to start so imagine if he were part of a group that tried to steal your shit and murder you even if you did nothing wrong? I would treat Arvo like absolute DOG SHIT as well. As for the Jane thing? It's been discussed many times. If you thought Jane just gave up and let a baby get eaten to save her own skin, I'd try to kill her too. It was an asininely one-sided choice. The only ones that put down Kenny were the ones that were waiting for any little excuse to. That's another key issue. It's a really issue choice one way or the other. Either you stuck with Kenny all this time and this crazy lady just killed a baby fuck her. Or you never liked Kenny and have been waiting for this.
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