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Post by Tommy Angelo on Mar 8, 2018 20:09:32 GMT
With episode description and screenshots released, I think many people are missing a point that I THINK Telltale is trying to make (at least I hope so). Everybody's like "John this, John that..." but what if a choice between John The Vigilante and John The Villain affects Batman more than we think it does?
What if, with John The Vigilante joining forces with Batman, Bruce becomes a villain himself? Finally embracing his father's destiny or realizing - a bit too late - that joining the Pact changed him? I mean, that's what Seasons 1 and 2 seem to be building up to (all clues are there - Wayne legacy, "we're two threads in the same stitch", hell, even Batman: The Enemy Within... it's all there).
And that's why Telltale can pull a rug from under us - that trying to make John good will make Bruce turn evil. If John ends up being a villain, then - ironically - Batman remains a good character, but at the cost of creating his ultimate nemesis.
What I mean is, Telltale takes the Nolan's TDK quote "You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become a villain" and applies this concept to their version of Batman/Bruce; regardless of the outcome, Batman and Joker are bound together and "are destined to do this forever" - with "this" being either a team or enemies, depending on player's choices.
To those of you who'll say, "Batman would never become a villain!" - may I refer you to Thomas Wayne and Vicki Vale, thank you very much for your cooperation.
Ooooooor... the game will end with a generic smackdown between the two, regardless of what happens. If that's the case, then John will definitely die, because I don't think TT would allow a character who's evil and knows Bruce's identity live for too long (hi Vicki). |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2018 20:11:15 GMT
With episode description and screenshots released, I think many people are missing a point that I THINK Telltale is trying to make (at least I hope so). Everybody's like "John this, John that..." but what if a choice between John The Vigilante and John The Villain affects Batman more than we think it does?
What if, with John The Vigilante joining forces with Batman, Bruce becomes a villain himself? Finally embracing his father's destiny or realizing - a bit too late - that joining the Pact changed him? I mean, that's what Seasons 1 and 2 seem to be building up to (all clues are there - Wayne legacy, "we're two threads in the same stitch", hell, even Batman: The Enemy Within)... it's all there).
And that's why Telltale can pull a rug from under us - that trying to make John good will make Bruce turn evil. If John ends up being a villain, then - ironically - Batman remains a good character, but at the cost of creating his ultimate nemesis.
What I mean is, Telltale takes the Nolan's TDK quote "You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become a villain" and applies this concept to their version of Batman/Bruce; regardless of the outcome, Batman and Joker are bound together and "are destined to do this forever" - with "this" being either a team or enemies, depending on player's choices.
To those of you who'll say, "Batman would never become a villain!" - may I refer you to Thomas Wayne and Vicki Vale, thank you very much for yout cooperation.
Ooooooor... the game will end with a generic smackdown between the two, regardless of what happens. If that's the case, then John will definitely die, because I don't think TT would allow a character who's evil and knows Bruce's identity live for too long (hi Vicki). That'd be fuckin' great. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2018 20:19:40 GMT
Don't care. Evil Batman all the way if that's gonna be the case. I started down this path and I'm not gonna stop now.
But yeah that'd actually be a killer twist.
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Post by Tommy Angelo on Mar 8, 2018 20:26:52 GMT
Don't care. Evil Batman all the way if that's gonna be the case. I started down this path and I'm not gonna stop now. But yeah that'd actually be a killer twist. That's what I hope they're aiming at... that trying to make Bruce see something "good" in John was his plan all along to bring Bruce down to his level. And, in the end, that makes Joker a winner and player a loser, since we should've seen this coming a lot earlier. If Telltale does end up doing it that way, then this might turn out to be one of their best game series (and retroactively making S1 a better and more carefuly crafted story than we thought). |
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Post by wakemeup on Mar 8, 2018 20:27:52 GMT
I can't see it happening but that would be great
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Post by Tommy Angelo on Mar 8, 2018 20:41:19 GMT
Also: the thing that makes me wonder is that the press release mentions "38 characters". Now, counting all major players from both seasons, that gives: 1. Bruce 2. Selina 3. Alfred 4. Gordon 5. Montoya 6. Regina 7. John Doe 8. Waller 9. Avesta 10. Tiffany 11. Harley 12. Bane 13. Freeze 14. Riddler (flashback?) 15. Lucius (flashback?) 16. Thomas Wayne (flashback?) 17. Martha Wayne (flashback?) 18. Vicki (flashback?) 19. Penguin (flashback?) 20. Two-Face (flashback?) 21. Dr Leland (flashback?) 22. Falcone (flashback?) So... where's the other 16 people? I know that there are some nameless thugs here and there, but in a TT game they usually amount to 4-5 characters with a throwaway line. And, on a side note: So, like... did no one at Telltale notice that Harley is supposedly carrying a hammer in this screenshot... but it's missing the actual hammer?  |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2018 21:19:08 GMT
the 38 characters thing probably is counting anyone with a speaking role so they can make it sound more impressive.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2018 21:21:45 GMT
Don't care. Evil Batman all the way if that's gonna be the case. I started down this path and I'm not gonna stop now. But yeah that'd actually be a killer twist. That's what I hope they're aiming at... that trying to make Bruce see something "good" in John was his plan all along to bring Bruce down to his level. And, in the end, that makes Joker a winner and player a loser, since we should've seen this coming a lot earlier. If Telltale does end up doing it that way, then this might turn out to be one of their best game series (and retroactively making S1 a better and more carefuly crafted story than we thought). If it happens, I don't think it would be John's "plan". I do think that John really is just confused and damaged and going along with whoever seems like his friend. But, I do honestly hope it plays out kinda like you said. I mean, I'd still be down for a story in which we redeem John, but your idea would make for an awesome twist. Basically, so long as they avoid John turning into the bad guy no matter what, I'm sure this episode will be a killer finale. Also, it wouldn't redeem Season One. Season One would still be painfully average, it would just be a point in Season Two's favor that they managed to build something great on the foundation of the first one. |
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Post by Tommy Angelo on Mar 10, 2018 9:00:48 GMT
That's what I hope they're aiming at... that trying to make Bruce see something "good" in John was his plan all along to bring Bruce down to his level. And, in the end, that makes Joker a winner and player a loser, since we should've seen this coming a lot earlier. If Telltale does end up doing it that way, then this might turn out to be one of their best game series (and retroactively making S1 a better and more carefuly crafted story than we thought). If it happens, I don't think it would be John's "plan". I do think that John really is just confused and damaged and going along with whoever seems like his friend. But, I do honestly hope it plays out kinda like you said. I mean, I'd still be down for a story in which we redeem John, but your idea would make for an awesome twist. Basically, so long as they avoid John turning into the bad guy no matter what, I'm sure this episode will be a killer finale. Also, it wouldn't redeem Season One. Season One would still be painfully average, it would just be a point in Season Two's favor that they managed to build something great on the foundation of the first one. I want to believe that Joker's been a manipulator all along, since he exhibited that trait before (say, playing a part of being a good patient before dr Leland, even though he was the one who fought Bruce assailants etc.) There's also still the issue of Riddler's assassin. With his (determinant) dying words ("White-faced freak betrayed me") and only one episode to go I think we can safely assume that it was John who killed him (since I don't think TT would introduce someone new as an assassin just before the end of the story). John was a part of the Pact, but now it's basically over and, essentially, it's John who is in charge now. He hinted at the fact that he knows Bruce is Batman way back in S1 and asked him for "a favor". Who knows, maybe John already hatched the plan in S1 that involving Bruce in The Pact would cause it to be destroyed, giving John a chance to emerge as the prince of crime, while at the same time having an opportunity to make Bruce his "friend" (meaning, turn Batman into villain). Bruce tries so hard to make John good that he didn't see John dragged him down already... And it would make a very good damn plan. Just look at the results of the poll in this thread to see how easily people fell for John's trap. |
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Post by Zeruis on Mar 14, 2018 1:36:24 GMT
So, trailer this week?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2018 2:54:33 GMT
I'm thinking trailer next week, and I'm also thinking they might do a special kind of trailer to avoid spoilers i.e. how TWD S2, GOT S1, and TFTB season finale trailers were mostly recap with only like, 10 seconds of stuff from the actual finale.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2018 16:08:04 GMT
Only new scene is a brief shot of the Suicide Squad, other than that, it's just a recap.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2018 17:48:16 GMT
Only new scene is a brief shot of the Suicide Squad, other than that, it's just a recap. ...now i have to play this |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2018 21:45:03 GMT
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Post by Master Psychic on Mar 16, 2018 7:47:39 GMT
Well, I'm hyped.
Can't wait to see how all of this ends. It's been a pretty good game, probably more impressive than season 1.
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Happy 10th Anniversary to The Walking Dead Game 
