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Post by thatstoo2019man on May 25, 2018 17:02:16 GMT
but is it worth 70 bucks?
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2018 18:45:12 GMT
I honestly hate it.
The only good part is Connor’s storyline, which is just some cool sci-fi genre fiction about a robot cop. It’s cliche as heck but at least it’s entertaining. Still, it’s too cohesive, competently presented, and grounded in its own fictional reality to be enjoyable as camp like other quanticdream stories, so it’s mostly just... an entertaining but cliched sci-fi police drama.
Markus’ storyline is boring, completely emotionless, also very cliched, and the moment where it flat out states the theme of the story to the player is just... why? That one is just flat out badly written with no redeeming qualities. It also has the least branching so far so there’s not even that :/
As someone who has actually experienced abuse, Kara’s storyline actually made me angry. It takes abuse and boils it down to its simplest cliches and uses that for cheap drama. Fuck David Cage. I honestly hate Detroit for how it handles abuse more than I hate 13RW for how it handles suicide because at least 13RW thought it was handling the issue maturely.
Even after the abuse stuff is over, Kara’s storyline is still awful but it is the most lifeless, emotionally vapid writing I’ve ever seen.
So... yeah. :/ I was hoping this would at least have a fun camp value to it, but no. Cage has grown enough as a writer to tell a cohesive, somewhat grounded story, and it completely ruins his charm. Now it’s not even bad writing I can laugh at, it’s just bad writing.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2018 19:29:55 GMT
Well, I got Conner killed through absolutely no fault of my own so I've rewinded because he's by far the best part of the game. Also, Markus remains boring as fuck and Kara is the most David Cage thing in existence.
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Post by Zeruis on May 25, 2018 22:00:53 GMT
Against my better judgment, I have just spent 60 bucks on this and downloading it right now.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2018 22:01:37 GMT
Against my better judgment, I have just spent 60 bucks on this and downloading it right now. Good luck lol
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2018 22:03:58 GMT
I don't think it's that bad, not worth full price due to the story only being... passable with some terrible writing here and there (so far, still haven't beat it), but the choices do change scenes pretty drastically and I have had a choice I made at the start of the game come back to save a character who would've died other wise, so I'd say it's worth a playthrough honestly.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2018 22:12:43 GMT
I don't think it's that bad, not worth full price due to the story only being... passable with some terrible writing here and there (so far, still haven't beat it), but the choices do change scenes pretty drastically and I have had a choice I made at the start of the game come back to save a character who would've died other wise, so I'd say it's worth a playthrough honestly. The branching is neat but the story is terrible so for me it’s not worth it. I do realize tho that I like it less than most bc the abuse storyline is especially distasteful to me.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2018 23:47:00 GMT
I beat it and yeah, eh story with choices that genuinely do fairly massively change things. I'd say it's probably worth waiting for a sale since like a third of the story bored me to tears, but it's still worth playing eventually.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2018 1:30:44 GMT
Just rewinded to get a different ending and the 1 choice I changed almost completely changed the last hour or so of the game, the branching is legitimately impressive as fuck. Connor's stuff is honestly pretty great in both versions I've played and Markus was still fairly boring, though I feel like he'll be a lot funner if you make him violent. Kara's storyline has some really cool shit here and there but over all is really sucky and feels the most like a David Cage game with the sucky twist and forced "special" moment or whatever the fuck. Overall though I like the game quite a bit, considering to attempt doing a one character playthrough, I know you can kill Kara really early on, no idea about Markus though.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2018 1:37:40 GMT
Also this lol
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Post by Zeruis on May 27, 2018 1:56:09 GMT
This fucking game, man.
As usual, David Cage knows shit about police operations and incorporating realistic romantic subplots. It's definitely the most emotional out of all of his games, but that's not saying much when looking at Heavy Rain and Beyond. It doesn't excuse him from the typical Cage memery and writing. North has absolutely no chemistry with Markus, yet there just HAS to be a romance for the EMOTIONS. And if you're playing Markus as a peaceful protestor, he still spouts off on hamfisted violent traits. He even questions Kara why she loves Alice when he himself loved Carl. This makes absolutely no sense.
Kara's storyline was decent enough, though the whole parental thing was kinda already explored with Ethan and Shaun in Heavy Rain. Some of her chapters were kinda cringey. It was unbelievable to have Kara go from one despairful conflict to another. Cage attempts to remediate this with the abandoned theme park that's kinda a happy moment, but even that doesn't work. And Kara is yet another short-haired female lead. David Cage definitely has a thing for short-haired girls, it isn't even subtle at this point.
My boy Connor and Mr. Krabs were the best things out of this game. I'm not saying this because I'm admittedly biased on loving law enforcement stories, but I enjoyed the banter and interactions with them. It was nice to see the two investigating, it gave me vibes to Heavy Rain's Jayden sections. If the entire game was just Connor and Mr. Krabs buddy-cop chapters where you target deviants, I would've LOVED it.
I got the peaceful ending with Markus, happy ending with Alice, Luthor, and Kara, and Connor and Mr. Krabs are bros.
Connor>>>Kara>David Cage>Markus
I was thinking that after a few games, David Cage would know how to write a coherent story with believable characters. But no. I admit that this was his most emotional game, and that it seems to be fairly branching, but he can't escape his writing. 6.5/10.
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Post by o0HeaDShoT0o on May 27, 2018 2:49:39 GMT
I have completed my first playthrough of Detroit. I have managed to save everyone without dying once and I got the best ending. I feel like I got real lucky at some moments. I did have to shoot the gun a few times, when it came to saving myself and my companions. (Plus, I may have used the Mind Palace too much. I didn't wanna miss anything. Yet, a few minor things managed to slip through. I'll find them when I replay the chapters.) Connor: Starting off in the game, I did not expect The Hostage chapter to be the prologue. But anyways, I like Hank. He's such an old grump, but he's a good cop. (And he's voiced by Clancy Brown, so that's cool.) When I first met him, I was worried my partnership with him was going to be like Jayden and Blake's in "Heavy Rain". But the two of us got along very well, despite the fact he hates androids. The most laugh I got out from him was when I sobered him up and when he sucker-punched that motherfucker Perkins. I also had to save Hank multiple times. He scared me at one point when he held a gun to my head. I thought he was gonna shoot me, but he didn't. Every time I had the choice to shoot a deviant, I refused, and spared them. Like this pair of Traci deviants who were in love with each other, for example. And even Kamski's Chloe android, and I wish I could've told him that Hank told me no, so, therefore, I followed orders and I didn't. Hank approves my decisions, but that Amanda lady kept being disappointed at me for not killing the deviants. Eh, to hell with her. Oh, and I met the cop that I saved from the Hostage chapter. When the time came to decide, I chose for Connor to become a deviant. That fight against his copy was nuts. I'm glad I got to know about Hank and learned about his son. Amanda's last ditch attempt to kill Markus was suck a dick move. But I managed to get free from her control and put the gun away in time. That final cutscene where Hank and Connor hugged was so touching. Kara: Fuck that Todd guy. And Zlatko can suck it. Okay, now that I got that off my chest, my first instinct after becoming deviant was to get out with Alice immediately, and we bailed together on that bus. I met Ralph. Boy, was he creepy. But at least he didn't hurt Alice and gave us shelter. I chose to give Kara white hair after changing her appearance. I really like Luther. He's such a gentle giant. Seeing Alice on that merry-go-round was a sweet moment. You know what really takes the cake in Kara's storyline for me? Alice was actually an android all along. Holy crap. That's what Luther was trying to tell me the whole time. But you know what? I didn't care about that. Alice and Luther are Kara's family. That's what I really liked about her storyline. With pure luck, I was able to reach the border with all three of them. I chose not to sacrifice anyone, and it pulled off. The guy saw the peaceful protest and allowed us into Canada. Thank goodness. Now, they're really free to live happily ever after. Markus: I really liked his owner Carl, and the portrait of "Hope for Humanity" I painted. (I may have spent a little too long playing piano. Didn't know when I was supposed to stop.) Shame that his son Leo gave him a heart attack and got me shot. That chapter where he comes back from the dead was creepy as hell. What I really liked was deciding how I wanna lead the protest, and despite everything, I was persistent on remaining a pacifist and maintain a peaceful protest. Those "preconstruct scenario" moments were nice. At one point when North and I were climbing the tower to the broadcast room, I saw the sign show the word "RISE", and I was like, "Oh, ha ha. Very funny." I saved everyone at Jericho during the attack and the demonstration. I didn't really expect North to become Markus' lover, but they do seem cute together. I enjoyed playing through the story. My favorite part was "Crossroads" and "Battle for Detroit". Transitioning from each android as their paths crossed and they were all working to finish what they start was cool. In the Extras section, there is a survey to take. One of the questions was "Who is your favorite character?" My top three would be Kara, Connor and Markus. Another one was"What was the toughest choice you faced?" and the answers were "Accepting Alice's identity with Kara", "Being Pacifist with Markus", and "Deciding to shoot Chloe with Connor". Now, these weren't that hard for me to decide. I didn't care that Alice was also an android, I wanted my protest to be peaceful, and I didn't want to kill. But if I had to decide, I think my answer would be "Being Pacifist or Violent." I try so hard to remain peaceful, but the riot police's actions makes it hard to resist the temptation to retaliate.
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Post by Niccc on May 27, 2018 8:06:13 GMT
I played about three hours. Game is pretty sick so far. Aside from the David Cage-isms, the writing isn't terrible yet. The branching is super impressive and cool.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2018 17:53:00 GMT
My Review of Detroit: Become Human (I guess?)
[Vague Spoilers Ahead, No References to Specific Plot-points]
So the story is absolute trash thematically, which is frustrating because it... almost isn’t?
Connor’s storyline is the best because it’s almost entirely character driven. Outside of that though, Markus’ story is frustrating because there are times when the writers actually find a really good symbol or idea, and they clearly know how to use it, but they never go far enough. The fact that the media will always call Jericho terrorists no matter how peaceful you are reflects real life characterizations of protest groups, so it’s a clever parallel, but nothing it done with it. The fact that the humans make the androids deactivate their skin, making them look alien and inhuman is a clever visualization of how marginalized groups are dehumanized, but again, this angle is not explored or pushed any further.
The appropriation of MLK, the post-racial worldbuilding, and the lack of any acknowledgement of Detroit’s history of racial tension or indeed or human racism at all is completely fucked. Absolutely kills any chance this story had of being seen as having an important social message.
There are also a lot of moments where UI and Narrative design betray the actual narrative. For example, the ui makes it blatantly obvious most of Markus’ choices are a binary choice between pacifism or violence. Obviously it’s hard to capture the nuance of social resistance in rigid systems, but that’s what the illusion of choice is for, but the design instead reveals everything about the nature of your choices, and in doing so it weakens a lot of those choices.
So the whole social commentary/allegory for oppression angle is, overall, laughably/offensively bad.
Beyond that the abuse storyline is also offensively bad for reasons you can just go ahead and find on my Twitter if you really want to.
Also there’s something near the end with the whole “the roles we choose are valid if they are emotionally true even if they are not literally true” re: the twist in Kara’s story. That stuff is interesting but not sufficiently explored enough to really be significant.
Also interesting but not explored enough: the religious undertones of Markus’ storyline. And Connor’s, now that I think of it.
Aside from what the story tries to say... I actually thought it was pretty entertaining and in a couple of places, genuinely emotional.
Don’t misunderstand me , the writing is often full of cliches, clunky dialogue, and a ton of inauthentic attempts to tug at players’ heartstrings, but it’s paced pretty well and there are a couple places where the dialogue actually starts to flow nicely and the characters become relatable. Also the action is overall really well directed.
A lot of the character stuff that works works solely because the acting is amazing, especially with the main three, and especially especially with the guy who plays Connor.
Connor’s storyline, especially his relationship with Hank, is by far the best, but I also really liked Kara, Alice, and Luther, and even Markus’ crew grew on me by the end. Heck, I even liked the romance between Markus and North. I kinda wish Kara and Luther got a more explicit romance bc they did have a lot more chemistry, but whatever, the memory sharing thing was a nice little quirk for Markus and North’s romance.
Even some of the stuff that was cheesy as hell, like singing, was pretty genuinely emotional, and I think it’s because the actors and cinematographer just kinda sold the heck out of it.
I could keep going on with smaller details but I think that’s basically the big stuff.
Oh! And it’s not sexist! Well, kinda. I’ve seen some complaints against Kara’s storyline, but in the face of Cage’s previous work Kara’s storyline is practically empowering(and I mean, it kinda is anyway).
I’d argue some of the social commentary misfires so badly - “I have a dream” (of electric sheep) - that the story still comes of as, if not actively racist like the Navajo chapter in Beyond: Two Souls, then at least implicitly racist in the misunderstanding and presuppositions it makes about American Society. Despite that, I appreciated how diverse the cast was(although I’m still not sure if Markus is supposed to be mixed like the actor who plays him or not, I’m positive they made his skin-tone much lighter in Detroit), at least up until the ending that I got, which was... weird.
So... yeah, that’s my thoughts on Detroit: Become Human. Quanticdream is clearly a studio with a lot of talented developers and resources, and I really wish someone other than David Cage was in charge of it...
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2018 17:59:34 GMT
It is impossible to rate this interactive story because I think it deserves something like, between a 2/10 or 3/10, but I still enjoyed it anyway, more-so even than Heavy Rain or Beyond: Two Souls, which I feel like I’d have to rate higher even though I enjoyed them less purely because they didn’t try as hard so they didn’t have as much room to fail.
So like, on a quality level it’s probably like a 2.7/10, but on an enjoyment scale it’s more like a solid 8/10, if that makes sense.
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