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Post by Rock114 on Jun 30, 2015 1:53:38 GMT
Except this one could literally pound planets into oblivion, as well as any other nearby planet he would've pleased. And there are some fucked up leaders, but I find it hard to believe any of them are as hellbent on their goals as Handsome Jack. I don't think he was THAT fucked up as Jack. After Handsome Jack was a thing, sure, he was evil. Before? No more evil than many real world characters. It was heavily implied that he was, especially at all the points where he remarks how much fun he has killing people based on suspicion and what he did to his own daughter even before the events of BL1.
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Post by thatstoomuchfestivity on Jun 30, 2015 1:54:42 GMT
Except this one could literally pound planets into oblivion, as well as any other nearby planet he would've pleased. And there are some fucked up leaders, but I find it hard to believe any of them are as hellbent on their goals as Handsome Jack. I don't think he was THAT fucked up as Jack. After Handsome Jack was a thing, sure, he was evil. Before? No more evil than many real world characters. I'm not quite so sure. In BL2, there's a side mission where you can hear a transcript of Jack abusively tethering a young Angel to what is presumably an Eridium pumping chair. He knew what he was doing.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2015 1:59:17 GMT
I don't think he was THAT fucked up as Jack. After Handsome Jack was a thing, sure, he was evil. Before? No more evil than many real world characters. I'm not quite so sure. In BL2, there's a side mission where you can hear a transcript of Jack abusively tethering a young Angel to what is presumably an Eridium pumping chair. He knew what he was doing. I completely forgot about that, honestly it kind of contradicts a lot of his character at the start of TPS like not killing the Merriff on the spot and potentially sacrificing himself to help the vault hunters escape at the start, they're not exactly the kind of things an insane heartless bastard would do.
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Post by Rock114 on Jun 30, 2015 2:02:32 GMT
I'm not quite so sure. In BL2, there's a side mission where you can hear a transcript of Jack abusively tethering a young Angel to what is presumably an Eridium pumping chair. He knew what he was doing. I completely forgot about that, honestly it kind of contradicts a lot of his character at the start of TPS like not killing the Merriff on the spot and potentially sacrificing himself to help the vault hunters escape at the start, they're not exactly the kind of things an insane heartless bastard would do. Yeah, I kind of admired him for that bit at the start of TPS but that all evaporated when I remembered what he did to Angel and how he manipulated the original Vault Hunters into opening the Vault so he could make the Eye of Helios.
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Post by sos on Jun 30, 2015 4:28:35 GMT
Angel was a key cog towards Jack's idea of a greater good for Pandora. It's right in her name, she was intended to be an Angel for Pandora. She just chose to be an angel to a different set of Gods.
Let's look at the two radicals, one is fact, the other is theory. Jack controls the Warrior, he wipes out Pandora entirely and becomes a 100% evil overlord, which is theory. On the other hand, the Warrior is killed, Jack is killed and Pandora continues to be a cesspool, which is fact. If I were a regular guy on Pandora, not a bandit and not a Vault Hunter, I'd be thinking eh, might as well see what Jack can do. If I end up dead, well, living day-by-day hoping I didn't get killed by bandits was getting old anyways.
Jack was willing to give up his daughter for Pandora's sake. I mean, what a sacrifice. Total hero move.
(That was "Spin Zone" brought to you by SOS.)
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Post by Rock114 on Jun 30, 2015 5:00:24 GMT
Angel was a key cog towards Jack's idea of a greater good for Pandora. It's right in her name, she was intended to be an Angel for Pandora. She just chose to be an angel to a different set of Gods. Let's look at the two radicals, one is fact, the other is theory. Jack controls the Warrior, he wipes out Pandora entirely and becomes a 100% evil overlord, which is theory. On the other hand, the Warrior is killed, Jack is killed and Pandora continues to be a cesspool, which is fact. If I were a regular guy on Pandora, not a bandit and not a Vault Hunter, I'd be thinking eh, might as well see what Jack can do. If I end up dead, well, living day-by-day hoping I didn't get killed by bandits was getting old anyways. Jack was willing to give up his daughter for Pandora's sake. I mean, what a sacrifice. Total hero move. (That was "Spin Zone" brought to you by SOS.) Wow SOS, that was a great audition to be the new host of "This Just In" on the Hyperion Truth Network. Joking of course. But now I'm being serious when I ask this: What about Angel's feelings? She's more than just Jack's daughter or a Siren, she's a person too. We all know how she felt about being pumped full of Eridium for years by her father. Jack took her life from her and then forced her to be a pawn in his plans to destroy an entire planet. Angel's life was never Jack's to sacrifice. The only person who should be able to make that choice for Angel is herself, but Jack forced her into the chair anyway and used her so he could become powerful. Why should Angel's feelings be disregarded in this matter when Jack forcing her into the chair affected her the most? She never chose to be in the chair.
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Post by sos on Jun 30, 2015 5:24:09 GMT
Angel was a key cog towards Jack's idea of a greater good for Pandora. It's right in her name, she was intended to be an Angel for Pandora. She just chose to be an angel to a different set of Gods. Let's look at the two radicals, one is fact, the other is theory. Jack controls the Warrior, he wipes out Pandora entirely and becomes a 100% evil overlord, which is theory. On the other hand, the Warrior is killed, Jack is killed and Pandora continues to be a cesspool, which is fact. If I were a regular guy on Pandora, not a bandit and not a Vault Hunter, I'd be thinking eh, might as well see what Jack can do. If I end up dead, well, living day-by-day hoping I didn't get killed by bandits was getting old anyways. Jack was willing to give up his daughter for Pandora's sake. I mean, what a sacrifice. Total hero move. (That was "Spin Zone" brought to you by SOS.) Wow SOS, that was a great audition to be the new host of "This Just In" on the Hyperion Truth Network. Joking of course. But now I'm being serious when I ask this: What about Angel's feelings? She's more than just Jack's daughter or a Siren, she's a person too. We all know how she felt about being pumped full of Eridium for years by her father. Jack took her life from her and then forced her to be a pawn in his plans to destroy an entire planet. Angel's life was never Jack's to sacrifice. The only person who should be able to make that choice for Angel is herself, but Jack forced her into the chair anyway and used her so he could become powerful. Why should Angel's feelings be disregarded in this matter when Jack forcing her into the chair affected her the most? She never chose to be in the chair. Hey, dems da breaks. I never said Jack was Father of the Year. In all seriousness, Jack was terrible. The only thing I still believe as true is that he honestly did want to cure Pandora in some way. Some (probably a lot of) innocents would die along the way, but I think he was right to want to cleanse Pandora. Let's be honest, that place needs a cleaning. Plus, I just like the guy. I liked him right from the "these pretzels suck" line. The moment I heard it I thought: "sold."
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Post by Rock114 on Jun 30, 2015 5:39:33 GMT
Wow SOS, that was a great audition to be the new host of "This Just In" on the Hyperion Truth Network. Joking of course. But now I'm being serious when I ask this: What about Angel's feelings? She's more than just Jack's daughter or a Siren, she's a person too. We all know how she felt about being pumped full of Eridium for years by her father. Jack took her life from her and then forced her to be a pawn in his plans to destroy an entire planet. Angel's life was never Jack's to sacrifice. The only person who should be able to make that choice for Angel is herself, but Jack forced her into the chair anyway and used her so he could become powerful. Why should Angel's feelings be disregarded in this matter when Jack forcing her into the chair affected her the most? She never chose to be in the chair. Hey, dems da breaks. I never said Jack was Father of the Year. In all seriousness, Jack was terrible. The only thing I still believe as true is that he honestly did want to cure Pandora in some way. Some (probably a lot of) innocents would die along the way, but I think he was right to want to cleanse Pandora. Let's be honest, that place needs a cleaning. Plus, I just like the guy. I liked him right from the "these pretzels suck" line. The moment I heard it I thought: "sold." Well, I'm just not cool with indiscriminately killing innocents in his quest to "Clean" Pandora of bandits. In my mind it was just an excuse to justify his actions so he could think of himself as the hero. But yeah, dude's got great lines. I love him too, in that "Love to hate" way.
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Post by sos on Jul 7, 2015 21:27:31 GMT
Ever realize how Handsome Jack is basically Christopher Columbus? A guy that was employed by other bigwigs to do a job. He happens upon a better opportunity somewhere entirely different than where he was supposed to be. Originally, he works together with the people that inhabit the new place (Early stages of TPS = Thanksgiving, nbd just a perfect comparison). Then he decides fuck it, we're colonizing this bitch into a brand new world and begins a massive slaughter. Both are the epitome of an anti-villain. Are we sure Columbus didn't end up murdering King Whoever The Fuck Sent Him To India?
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Post by Bioshock Infinite WD on Jul 7, 2015 21:40:45 GMT
Ever realize how Handsome Jack is basically Christopher Columbus? A guy that was employed by other bigwigs to do a job. He happens upon a better opportunity somewhere entirely different than where he was supposed to be. Originally, he works together with the people that inhabit the new place (Early stages of TPS = Thanksgiving, nbd just a perfect comparison). Then he decides fuck it, we're colonizing this bitch into a brand new world and begins a massive slaughter. Both are the epitome of an anti-villain. Are we sure Columbus didn't end up murdering King Whoever The Fuck Sent Him To India? Columbus didn't kill King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella, last time I checked anyway. Beside that, I see what you mean.
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Post by wakemeup on Jul 7, 2015 22:44:19 GMT
I really do like Jack. Not only because he's hilarious, but I like him in general. I'd say he was mostly good guy before BL2. He did lock down Angel though, but he said at some point, that what she did to her mother was one of the reasons. Was it ever explained if he lied or not?
He was evil after that, but I don't think he was 100% pure evil. He did want to make a better Pandora, and maybe something good would come out of it, if not for tons of innocents dying. It's just that his view of world around him was too fucked, and he enojyed killing way too much.
I'm still holding to my pro Jack choices in tftbl, and I'm hoping we'll be surprised, and sticking with him actually won't bite us in the ass.
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Post by Rock114 on Jul 7, 2015 23:19:51 GMT
I really do like Jack. Not only because he's hilarious, but I like him in general. I'd say he was mostly good guy before BL2. He did lock down Angel though, but he said at some point, that what she did to her mother was one of the reasons. Was it ever explained if he lied or not? He was evil after that, but I don't think he was 100% pure evil. He did want to make a better Pandora, and maybe something good would come out of it, if not for tons of innocents dying. It's just that his view of world around him was too fucked, and he enojyed killing way too much. I'm still holding to my pro Jack choices in tftbl, and I'm hoping we'll be surprised, and sticking with him actually won't bite us in the ass. I think he might have lied about that. It's something I never noticed until it was pointed out to me recently, but there's a little hiccup in BL2 that either indicates he's lying or the writers weren't very attentive during a certain quest. The guy he strangled mentioned that, before her disappearance, Jack's wife suggested shutting down Angel's device. So... were that actually true it would mean Angel was already in the chair before her mother died. Or both could be true? Maybe one of the malfunctions that was mentioned is what killed her mother and she died as a result of Jack putting her in the chair in the first place. I dunno. Maybe they fucked up with the writing or maybe they just made it overly subtle. No idea.
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Post by sos on Aug 22, 2015 6:24:43 GMT
So. So, so, so.
Handsome Jack has at least some morality and humanity, can we all agree on that? I mean, even like .05% of those traits.
Say Telltale actually goes a much different route than we think. As in, we don't defeat Jack all over again. Or, we control the outcome through how we interact with him as Rhys... how we treat him throughout the season. What if Rhys can somehow get through to Jack? What if Jack somehow, someway, sees the err of his ways? Instead of us taking him down again, he comes to the revelation of how bad he is, how he isn't the hero, how he's the villain and gives in to death. (I can't find a better way to phrase that. That phrasing sounds so ludicrous when talking about Handsome Jack.)
Do you think this would somehow be accomplishable given what we know about Jack the person, not Handsome Jack the tyrant? Or would it be way too much a stretch no matter how it's done?
Don't get me wrong. That'd be damn hard. Close to impossible. But I think it's a cool thought. Everyone thinks they know how the Jack storyline will end and then Telltale takes it in an unexplored, different direction. It'd be a really fresh ending as opposed to a "defeat Jack again" ending.
(Obviously we're going to have to defeat Jack again and he won't succumb to his humanity, he's clearly too far gone. Just making conversation.)
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Post by Bioshock Infinite WD on Aug 23, 2015 5:09:18 GMT
So. So, so, so. Handsome Jack has at least some morality and humanity, can we all agree on that? I mean, even like .05% of those traits. Say Telltale actually goes a much different route than we think. As in, we don't defeat Jack all over again. Or, we control the outcome through how we interact with him as Rhys... how we treat him throughout the season. What if Rhys can somehow get through to Jack? What if Jack somehow, someway, sees the err of his ways? Instead of us taking him down again, he comes to the revelation of how bad he is, how he isn't the hero, how he's the villain and gives in to death. (I can't find a better way to phrase that. That phrasing sounds so ludicrous when talking about Handsome Jack.) Do you think this would somehow be accomplishable given what we know about Jack the person, not Handsome Jack the tyrant? Or would it be way too much a stretch no matter how it's done? Don't get me wrong. That'd be damn hard. Close to impossible. But I think it's a cool thought. Everyone thinks they know how the Jack storyline will end and then Telltale takes it in an unexplored, different direction. It'd be a really fresh ending as opposed to a "defeat Jack again" ending. (Obviously we're going to have to defeat Jack again and he won't succumb to his humanity, he's clearly too far gone. Just making conversation.) Interesting notion, but even in death it wouldn't really be his character to just realize the error of his ways. If cold hard death didn't do it the first time, then it won't change. Not that I am complaining from a writing standpoint, his material is pretty much as strong as Borderlands 2, even better in some respects. I always love a villain that can be both funny, and at the drop of a hat intimidating and scary. Bravo Telltale!
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Post by wakemeup on Sept 7, 2015 19:45:32 GMT
So. So, so, so. Handsome Jack has at least some morality and humanity, can we all agree on that? I mean, even like .05% of those traits. Say Telltale actually goes a much different route than we think. As in, we don't defeat Jack all over again. Or, we control the outcome through how we interact with him as Rhys... how we treat him throughout the season. What if Rhys can somehow get through to Jack? What if Jack somehow, someway, sees the err of his ways? Instead of us taking him down again, he comes to the revelation of how bad he is, how he isn't the hero, how he's the villain and gives in to death. (I can't find a better way to phrase that. That phrasing sounds so ludicrous when talking about Handsome Jack.) Do you think this would somehow be accomplishable given what we know about Jack the person, not Handsome Jack the tyrant? Or would it be way too much a stretch no matter how it's done? Don't get me wrong. That'd be damn hard. Close to impossible. But I think it's a cool thought. Everyone thinks they know how the Jack storyline will end and then Telltale takes it in an unexplored, different direction. It'd be a really fresh ending as opposed to a "defeat Jack again" ending. (Obviously we're going to have to defeat Jack again and he won't succumb to his humanity, he's clearly too far gone. Just making conversation.) It's impossible, true. But, I kinda wish it could be an option. Yeah, I'm one of people who believe he used to be a decent person. I like to think he was genuine with Rhys in rulling Hyperion, if Rhys was good with him. After being betrayed so much, having his meat buddy, someone he can finally trust could help him, right? Not gonna happen, but yeah. Cool idea. I'm curious if him not knowing about Angel's death will be important in the finale. That will make Jack snap even more. Also, is anyone else not liking Lillith, especailly after The pre-sequel?
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