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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2015 23:08:30 GMT
It's a more well crafted experience. With more intentional design choices, and better level design.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2015 23:18:20 GMT
I actually prefer NMRIH too, and I prefer L4D to that.
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Post by Rock114 on Mar 29, 2015 23:20:59 GMT
It's a more well crafted experience. With more intentional design choices, and better level design. More intentional design choices? What does that even mean? And I vastly prefer Killing Floor's level design to NMRIH's.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2015 0:44:16 GMT
It's a more well crafted experience. With more intentional design choices, and better level design. More intentional design choices? What does that even mean? And I vastly prefer Killing Floor's level design to NMRIH's. It means there was more thought put into each and every part of the game. For instance, the grab mechanic. There are quite a lot of things that could make zombies grabbing you a huge hassle, and annoying to deal with, especially considering the slow movement speed. However, the developers of NMRIH dodged each and every flaw they could. A loud jumpscare noise when you get grabbed, a small delay before taking damage, and many more things make that mechanic perfect for the game. Compare this to KF's grabbing mechanic. The screen goes fuzzy and you start taking damage from an unknown direction instantly. Lame.
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Post by Rock114 on Mar 30, 2015 0:48:31 GMT
More intentional design choices? What does that even mean? And I vastly prefer Killing Floor's level design to NMRIH's. It means there was more thought put into each and every part of the game. For instance, the grab mechanic. There are quite a lot of things that could make zombies grabbing you a huge hassle, and annoying to deal with, especially considering the slow movement speed. However, the developers of NMRIH dodged each and every flaw they could. A loud jumpscare noise when you get grabbed, a small delay before taking damage, and many more things make that mechanic perfect for the game. Compare this to KF's grabbing mechanic. The screen goes fuzzy and you start taking damage from an unknown direction instantly. Lame. So grabbing mechanics are what make or break games nowadays? Grabbing is an essential part of NMRIH. It's literally one of a grand total of TWO ways the enemies can hurt you. Having good grabbing is vastly more important in that game than in KF. In KF you have one enemy that can hold you in place, and it's job isn't to kill you. It's job is to hold you there for the bigger dudes to get a shot on you or close the distance, like the Scrake or the Husk. It's a feature of one extremely easy and weak enemy, not every single enemy in the game. It serves it's intended purpose well.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2015 0:52:59 GMT
More intentional design choices? What does that even mean? And I vastly prefer Killing Floor's level design to NMRIH's. It means there was more thought put into each and every part of the game. For instance, the grab mechanic. There are quite a lot of things that could make zombies grabbing you a huge hassle, and annoying to deal with, especially considering the slow movement speed. However, the developers of NMRIH dodged each and every flaw they could. A loud jumpscare noise when you get grabbed, a small delay before taking damage, and many more things make that mechanic perfect for the game. Compare this to KF's grabbing mechanic. The screen goes fuzzy and you start taking damage from an unknown direction instantly. Lame. I gotta agree. Anyways, I think I like NMRIH better cause its more realistic than KF. Gotta say, the Patriarach parts are fuckin' intense but that's about it that's intense. NMRIH has alot of intense moments, like a runner appears outta nowhere and that jumpscare noise plays. You don't know who the hell's alive or not unless you TAB (if u do that u sux) and it's intense to figure out how long you've got and if you are the only one left. Not as intense today because well, I have like nearly 140 hours of gameplay on it.
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Post by Rock114 on Mar 30, 2015 1:00:01 GMT
It means there was more thought put into each and every part of the game. For instance, the grab mechanic. There are quite a lot of things that could make zombies grabbing you a huge hassle, and annoying to deal with, especially considering the slow movement speed. However, the developers of NMRIH dodged each and every flaw they could. A loud jumpscare noise when you get grabbed, a small delay before taking damage, and many more things make that mechanic perfect for the game. Compare this to KF's grabbing mechanic. The screen goes fuzzy and you start taking damage from an unknown direction instantly. Lame. I gotta agree. Anyways, I think I like NMRIH better cause its more realistic than KF. Gotta say, the Patriarach parts are fuckin' intense but that's about it that's intense. NMRIH has alot of intense moments, like a runner appears outta nowhere and that jumpscare noise plays. You don't know who the hell's alive or not unless you TAB (if u do that u sux) and it's intense to figure out how long you've got and if you are the only one left. Not as intense today because well, I have like nearly 140 hours of gameplay on it. NMRIH is one of the least tense things I could play right now. In the beginning sure, it was a bit intense, but now it's so boring I'm not entirely sure why I haven't uninstalled it. The enemies in KF keep it intense by requiring teamwork to take down. Each has their own unique little abilities to keep you on your toes and can fuck you if you forget about them or if a teammate doesn't have your back. It's a true coop game and it pulls that off way better than NMRIH does.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2015 1:06:56 GMT
It means there was more thought put into each and every part of the game. For instance, the grab mechanic. There are quite a lot of things that could make zombies grabbing you a huge hassle, and annoying to deal with, especially considering the slow movement speed. However, the developers of NMRIH dodged each and every flaw they could. A loud jumpscare noise when you get grabbed, a small delay before taking damage, and many more things make that mechanic perfect for the game. Compare this to KF's grabbing mechanic. The screen goes fuzzy and you start taking damage from an unknown direction instantly. Lame. So grabbing mechanics are what make or break games nowadays? Grabbing is an essential part of NMRIH. It's literally one of a grand total of TWO ways the enemies can hurt you. Having good grabbing is vastly more important in that game than in KF. In KF you have one enemy that can hold you in place, and it's job isn't to kill you. It's job is to hold you there for the bigger dudes to get a shot on you or close the distance, like the Scrake or the Husk. It's a feature of one extremely easy and weak enemy, not every single enemy in the game. It serves it's intended purpose well. It's just an example. One of many. If you would like another, consider the first aid mechanics. Whether it's pills, or bandages, or the first aid kit itself, they all are very thoughtfully designed. The pills, being the most essential, have the quickest animation, and therefore, the quickest effect. However, they don't want you popping pills just anywhere, that way, infection would seem somewhat inconsequential. Instead, they have a very significant blind period, which makes you unable to see for 2-3 seconds, which can mean life or death, depending on your health. This forces you to sometimes let the infection spread, as you find safety. Then the bandages, which have a slightly longer bandages, also heal you a small amount, which is a nice little addition. Nothing as thoughtful as the pills, but nice nonetheless. The medkit has by far and away the longest animation time, which means waiting longer to heal, which adds an insane amount of tension in the right scenarios, and can possibly force you to interrupt your healing in order to shove. Meanwhile, in KF, press q to live. Sure, it is kind of necessary for health to be pretty instant, due to the speed of the game, but its health mechanics add little tension to the game, unless you barely survive an encounter. Other than that, no tension.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2015 1:15:23 GMT
I gotta agree. Anyways, I think I like NMRIH better cause its more realistic than KF. Gotta say, the Patriarach parts are fuckin' intense but that's about it that's intense. NMRIH has alot of intense moments, like a runner appears outta nowhere and that jumpscare noise plays. You don't know who the hell's alive or not unless you TAB (if u do that u sux) and it's intense to figure out how long you've got and if you are the only one left. Not as intense today because well, I have like nearly 140 hours of gameplay on it. NMRIH is one of the least tense things I could play right now. In the beginning sure, it was a bit intense, but now it's so boring I'm not entirely sure why I haven't uninstalled it. The enemies in KF keep it intense by requiring teamwork to take down. Each has their own unique little abilities to keep you on your toes and can fuck you if you forget about them or if a teammate doesn't have your back. It's a true coop game and it pulls that off way better than NMRIH does. It's only not intense because the last time you were playing it, you were at the top of your game. Time injects a lot of fun into it. Trust me. I was kinda done with it for a while, too. Now I'm playing it again, and it's pretty great. As for the coop in KF, of course KF creates a stronger team bond. That's the feeling that KF was aiming for. NMRIH was aiming for a bit more of a survivor sort of feeling. You watch your friends die slowly, and have to keep on moving. In KF, when you're almost done with a round, everyone else is dead, it feels way less intense than being on your own in NMRIH. Because in NMRIH, all it takes is for one zombie to grab you, and bam, you could be surrounded, or infected, or whatever. There's also a much less certain feel about NMRIH. Sure, the zombies spawn in waves, during the survival mode, but the thing is, the amount you need to kill in order to progress is not equal to the amount of zombies on the map. You could beat the wave, then die before everyone respawns. Bam, restart. So many more little uncertainties add up to a much more intense feeling.
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Post by Rock114 on Mar 30, 2015 1:27:44 GMT
So grabbing mechanics are what make or break games nowadays? Grabbing is an essential part of NMRIH. It's literally one of a grand total of TWO ways the enemies can hurt you. Having good grabbing is vastly more important in that game than in KF. In KF you have one enemy that can hold you in place, and it's job isn't to kill you. It's job is to hold you there for the bigger dudes to get a shot on you or close the distance, like the Scrake or the Husk. It's a feature of one extremely easy and weak enemy, not every single enemy in the game. It serves it's intended purpose well. It's just an example. One of many. If you would like another, consider the first aid mechanics. Whether it's pills, or bandages, or the first aid kit itself, they all are very thoughtfully designed. The pills, being the most essential, have the quickest animation, and therefore, the quickest effect. However, they don't want you popping pills just anywhere, that way, infection would seem somewhat inconsequential. Instead, they have a very significant blind period, which makes you unable to see for 2-3 seconds, which can mean life or death, depending on your health. This forces you to sometimes let the infection spread, as you find safety. Then the bandages, which have a slightly longer bandages, also heal you a small amount, which is a nice little addition. Nothing as thoughtful as the pills, but nice nonetheless. The medkit has by far and away the longest animation time, which means waiting longer to heal, which adds an insane amount of tension in the right scenarios, and can possibly force you to interrupt your healing in order to shove. Meanwhile, in KF, press q to live. Sure, it is kind of necessary for health to be pretty instant, due to the speed of the game, but its health mechanics add little tension to the game, unless you barely survive an encounter. Other than that, no tension. The health mechanics of KF aren't just "Press Q to live," the syringe has a recharge time that can get you killed if you heal at the wrong time. And that healing is pretty insignificant on higher difficulties unless you're a medic. And as you said, it's necessary because KF is a faster game. You need to be able to heal more quickly and more often to have a chance of dealing with the hordes of zeds trying to kill you. You have to be aware of your health and your teammates' health when going up against a huge horde of zeds because you can be torn to shreds in an instant in later waves if your mind lapses for even a second. NMRIH's first aid mechanics aren't nearly as intense as you give them credit for. About the only thing remotely tense about them is that they aren't always instantly available to you. The 2-3 second blind period of the pills is inconsequential. You'd have to be stupid or already completely fucked to die during that, and you have a good two full minutes once you see the infection spreading to find a spot where you won't be disturbed for those 2-3 seconds, which is almost anywhere not immediately occupied by a zombie. The bandaging time is a few seconds long, and unless you picked the worst time/place to bandage ever you won't have to worry about any zombies getting close. The first aid kit's long animation causes a little tension but it's not like places you can heal undisturbed are a rarity. You shouldn't have to shove when using the First Aid Kit because if you do it means you decided to do the drawn out animation near a zombie or a group of zombies instead of killing or avoiding them first, at which point you're basically asking to be killed. The only tension from those mechanics comes from using them in inappropriate situations.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2015 1:34:29 GMT
It's just an example. One of many. If you would like another, consider the first aid mechanics. Whether it's pills, or bandages, or the first aid kit itself, they all are very thoughtfully designed. The pills, being the most essential, have the quickest animation, and therefore, the quickest effect. However, they don't want you popping pills just anywhere, that way, infection would seem somewhat inconsequential. Instead, they have a very significant blind period, which makes you unable to see for 2-3 seconds, which can mean life or death, depending on your health. This forces you to sometimes let the infection spread, as you find safety. Then the bandages, which have a slightly longer bandages, also heal you a small amount, which is a nice little addition. Nothing as thoughtful as the pills, but nice nonetheless. The medkit has by far and away the longest animation time, which means waiting longer to heal, which adds an insane amount of tension in the right scenarios, and can possibly force you to interrupt your healing in order to shove. Meanwhile, in KF, press q to live. Sure, it is kind of necessary for health to be pretty instant, due to the speed of the game, but its health mechanics add little tension to the game, unless you barely survive an encounter. Other than that, no tension. The health mechanics of KF aren't just "Press Q to live," the syringe has a recharge time that can get you killed if you heal at the wrong time. And that healing is pretty insignificant on higher difficulties unless you're a medic. And as you said, it's necessary because KF is a faster game. You need to be able to heal more quickly and more often to have a chance of dealing with the hordes of zeds trying to kill you. You have to be aware of your health and your teammates' health when going up against a huge horde of zeds because you can be torn to shreds in an instant in later waves if your mind lapses for even a second. NMRIH's first aid mechanics aren't nearly as intense as you give them credit for. About the only thing remotely tense about them is that they aren't always instantly available to you. The 2-3 second blind period of the pills is inconsequential. You'd have to be stupid or already completely fucked to die during that, and you have a good two full minutes once you see the infection spreading to find a spot where you won't be disturbed for those 2-3 seconds, which is almost anywhere not immediately occupied by a zombie. The bandaging time is a few seconds long, and unless you picked the worst time/place to bandage ever you won't have to worry about any zombies getting close. The first aid kit's long animation causes a little tension but it's not like places you can heal undisturbed are a rarity. You shouldn't have to shove when using the First Aid Kit because if you do it means you decided to do the drawn out animation near a zombie or a group of zombies instead of killing or avoiding them first, at which point you're basically asking to be killed. The only tension from those mechanics comes from using them in inappropriate situations. The recharge is significant, sure, but in a good team, with all the levels up, there's little to worry about in the way of health. As for the NMRIH healing, it's intense in situations like the generator, in Cabin, or the ending of Chinatown. Situations which cannot be avoided, and which are difficult to deal with. Being forced to take pills at a bad time could get you killed very easily. I gave NMRIH's mechanics exactly as much credit as they deserve.
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Post by Rock114 on Mar 30, 2015 1:35:12 GMT
NMRIH is one of the least tense things I could play right now. In the beginning sure, it was a bit intense, but now it's so boring I'm not entirely sure why I haven't uninstalled it. The enemies in KF keep it intense by requiring teamwork to take down. Each has their own unique little abilities to keep you on your toes and can fuck you if you forget about them or if a teammate doesn't have your back. It's a true coop game and it pulls that off way better than NMRIH does. It's only not intense because the last time you were playing it, you were at the top of your game. Time injects a lot of fun into it. Trust me. I was kinda done with it for a while, too. Now I'm playing it again, and it's pretty great. As for the coop in KF, of course KF creates a stronger team bond. That's the feeling that KF was aiming for. NMRIH was aiming for a bit more of a survivor sort of feeling. You watch your friends die slowly, and have to keep on moving. In KF, when you're almost done with a round, everyone else is dead, it feels way less intense than being on your own in NMRIH. Because in NMRIH, all it takes is for one zombie to grab you, and bam, you could be surrounded, or infected, or whatever. There's also a much less certain feel about NMRIH. Sure, the zombies spawn in waves, during the survival mode, but the thing is, the amount you need to kill in order to progress is not equal to the amount of zombies on the map. You could beat the wave, then die before everyone respawns. Bam, restart. So many more little uncertainties add up to a much more intense feeling. I don't get that feeling when I don't play it for a while and come back to it. I hardly feel anything when teammates die because I know I don't really need them unless I decide to fuck around instead of actually playing. Being the last man alive in KF is way more intense. You could have the fleshpound charging at you with his meatgrinder hands and nobody to get him off your back, or have the Scrake barreling toward you down a corridor without the ammo for the guns you need to take him down. All he needs to do is get close to you and bam, you lose. The team loses. That is heart pounding intensity because you know that that huge guy isn't fucking around and he wants you dead. Just because there are a few extra zombies on the map than what the counter tells you in NMRIH doesn't make it intense. It's easy to see the zombies coming. Then all you need to do is whack away with your melee, or shoot them for an even easier time. They're zombies. They're the easiest things to kill in the gaming world.
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Post by Rock114 on Mar 30, 2015 1:39:50 GMT
The health mechanics of KF aren't just "Press Q to live," the syringe has a recharge time that can get you killed if you heal at the wrong time. And that healing is pretty insignificant on higher difficulties unless you're a medic. And as you said, it's necessary because KF is a faster game. You need to be able to heal more quickly and more often to have a chance of dealing with the hordes of zeds trying to kill you. You have to be aware of your health and your teammates' health when going up against a huge horde of zeds because you can be torn to shreds in an instant in later waves if your mind lapses for even a second. NMRIH's first aid mechanics aren't nearly as intense as you give them credit for. About the only thing remotely tense about them is that they aren't always instantly available to you. The 2-3 second blind period of the pills is inconsequential. You'd have to be stupid or already completely fucked to die during that, and you have a good two full minutes once you see the infection spreading to find a spot where you won't be disturbed for those 2-3 seconds, which is almost anywhere not immediately occupied by a zombie. The bandaging time is a few seconds long, and unless you picked the worst time/place to bandage ever you won't have to worry about any zombies getting close. The first aid kit's long animation causes a little tension but it's not like places you can heal undisturbed are a rarity. You shouldn't have to shove when using the First Aid Kit because if you do it means you decided to do the drawn out animation near a zombie or a group of zombies instead of killing or avoiding them first, at which point you're basically asking to be killed. The only tension from those mechanics comes from using them in inappropriate situations. The recharge is significant, sure, but in a good team, with all the levels up, there's little to worry about in the way of health. As for the NMRIH healing, it's intense in situations like the generator, in Cabin, or the ending of Chinatown. Situations which cannot be avoided, and which are difficult to deal with. Being forced to take pills at a bad time could get you killed very easily. I gave NMRIH's mechanics exactly as much credit as they deserve. It doesn't take much to kill a team, even a good one, in KF. One guy having a lapse in judgement could mean the end for everyone, no matter their levels. Those situations you listed are hardly difficult to deal with. It's not the time for a first aid kit, sure, but unless a zombie is 5 feet away or closer to you then he won't kill you because you decided to take pills.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2015 1:41:29 GMT
It's only not intense because the last time you were playing it, you were at the top of your game. Time injects a lot of fun into it. Trust me. I was kinda done with it for a while, too. Now I'm playing it again, and it's pretty great. As for the coop in KF, of course KF creates a stronger team bond. That's the feeling that KF was aiming for. NMRIH was aiming for a bit more of a survivor sort of feeling. You watch your friends die slowly, and have to keep on moving. In KF, when you're almost done with a round, everyone else is dead, it feels way less intense than being on your own in NMRIH. Because in NMRIH, all it takes is for one zombie to grab you, and bam, you could be surrounded, or infected, or whatever. There's also a much less certain feel about NMRIH. Sure, the zombies spawn in waves, during the survival mode, but the thing is, the amount you need to kill in order to progress is not equal to the amount of zombies on the map. You could beat the wave, then die before everyone respawns. Bam, restart. So many more little uncertainties add up to a much more intense feeling. I don't get that feeling when I don't play it for a while and come back to it. I hardly feel anything when teammates die because I know I don't really need them unless I decide to fuck around instead of actually playing. Being the last man alive in KF is way more intense. You could have the fleshpound charging at you with his meatgrinder hands and nobody to get him off your back, or have the Scrake barreling toward you down a corridor without the ammo for the guns you need to take him down. All he needs to do is get close to you and bam, you lose. The team loses. That is heart pounding intensity because you know that that huge guy isn't fucking around and he wants you dead. Just because there are a few extra zombies on the map than what the counter tells you in NMRIH doesn't make it intense. It's easy to see the zombies coming. Then all you need to do is whack away with your melee, or shoot them for an even easier time. They're zombies. They're the easiest things to kill in the gaming world. In those situations you described, you already know your fate. For me, that's when I just go, "Ah shit. Oh well." In NMRIH, there's almost always a chance, unless there's 6 runners behind you and you have to take your pills, you can always intuitively come up with a way out. It's also not always just a few more in survival mode. There have been times, in Camp Blood especially, where I saw a fucking horde raining down on the only safe zone left, with no ammo. But it didn't feel futile to fight back, because I still had a chance. This is where a slightly easier difficulty actually adds tension, for me.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2015 1:43:50 GMT
The recharge is significant, sure, but in a good team, with all the levels up, there's little to worry about in the way of health. As for the NMRIH healing, it's intense in situations like the generator, in Cabin, or the ending of Chinatown. Situations which cannot be avoided, and which are difficult to deal with. Being forced to take pills at a bad time could get you killed very easily. I gave NMRIH's mechanics exactly as much credit as they deserve. It doesn't take much to kill a team, even a good one, in KF. One guy having a lapse in judgement could mean the end for everyone, no matter their levels. Those situations you listed are hardly difficult to deal with. It's not the time for a first aid kit, sure, but unless a zombie is 5 feet away or closer to you then he won't kill you because you decided to take pills. I will give you that sometimes there are lulls in NMRIH, but still, you never know when a runner will burst out and grab you, then, in your panic, three to four more zombies are all over you. You can still make it out of that situation, but now you are beaten, battered, and possibly infected. And that's just assuming a lame spread of zombies was spawned. As for KF, I don't quite like the reliance on teammates. I prefer to have my performance determine my fate, to a large extent.
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