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Post by Bioshock Infinite WD on Jun 20, 2015 20:52:41 GMT
I kind of have to agree with this... I disagree with a lot of that, especially about how he claims Germany to be depicted as an outside evil force while the French/Entente are presented as clearly the good guys. There are several points in the game where German soldiers are depicted as just regular people like Emile and Karl just trying to survive the war, and in the last two acts the French are depicted in a very dark, warmongering light. Off the top of my head: There's the German soldier who helps Emile, as was mentioned in the video, then killed the next the day. Heck, that guy's friends arguably count as well since they didn't shoot Emile, an enemy soldier, just because the guy Emile helped told them not to. The German medic who was Walt's original owner is an all around great guy. He holds no ill will toward Karl even when he's suspected of being a traitor and even gives his life to save Karl and Walt during the French Gas Attack on the town. Karl. That's all that needs to be said about him. For the Allies, the French commanders are depicted as being even worse than the cartoonishly evil Baron as they delight in the massive enemy casualties, including the German who saved Emile. Emile was so sickened by this that he actually burned all of the medals he'd been awarded as a show of protest. French commanders are continuously shown to lead men to their deaths for absolutely no reason whatsoever, as we see in Emile's first and last battles of the war. Especially in that last battle where they're literally ordering their men to climb mountains of corpses to charge directly into enemy machine guns. At best they're incompetent, at worst they don't give a toss about the lives of their men. In fact, when Emile has enough of this and accidentally kills an officer to stop him from sending even more men to senselessly die, the French command has him executed. The Baron's inclusion at first makes the game seem pretty cut and dry/black and white, and I think everyone agrees that the game's narrative becomes exponentially better once he's gone, but it's about as morally grey and a fair depiction of war as I've seen a game have yet, right up there with the Brothers in Arms series. Agreed, and if you ever read a lot about World War I, you would quickly find out just how grey everything was. The German's were not perfect, hell they did slaughter hundreds of civilians in Belgium out of the assumption they were spys or snipers. That happened more out of fear then wanting to purge. The French as you said, were far from hero's as well, the entire Nivell offensive is a monument to that. I feel the character of the Baron was to show the aristocratic officer class and to contrast with the poor drafted soldiers. It showed that not all Germans were good people, but neither were they all evil, same with the French. There are good French officers and soldiers in the game, but there are plenty of officers that don't care about the men. That is what war is, grey mortality, no side is fully evil or fully good, and Valiant Hearts depicted arguably the most morally grey war very accurately. So yes, I heavily disagree with that assessment.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2015 21:59:24 GMT
I kind of have to agree with this... I disagree with a lot of that, especially about how he claims Germany to be depicted as an outside evil force while the French/Entente are presented as clearly the good guys. There are several points in the game where German soldiers are depicted as just regular people like Emile and Karl just trying to survive the war, and in the last two acts the French are depicted in a very dark, warmongering light. Off the top of my head: There's the German soldier who helps Emile, as was mentioned in the video, then killed the next the day. Heck, that guy's friends arguably count as well since they didn't shoot Emile, an enemy soldier, just because the guy Emile helped told them not to. The German medic who was Walt's original owner is an all around great guy. He holds no ill will toward Karl even when he's suspected of being a traitor and even gives his life to save Karl and Walt during the French Gas Attack on the town. Karl. That's all that needs to be said about him. For the Allies, the French commanders are depicted as being even worse than the cartoonishly evil Baron as they delight in the massive enemy casualties, including the German who saved Emile. Emile was so sickened by this that he actually burned all of the medals he'd been awarded as a show of protest. French commanders are continuously shown to lead men to their deaths for absolutely no reason whatsoever, as we see in Emile's first and last battles of the war. Especially in that last battle where they're literally ordering their men to climb mountains of corpses to charge directly into enemy machine guns. At best they're incompetent, at worst they don't give a toss about the lives of their men. In fact, when Emile has enough of this and accidentally kills an officer to stop him from sending even more men to senselessly die, the French command has him executed. The Baron's inclusion at first makes the game seem pretty cut and dry/black and white, and I think everyone agrees that the game's narrative becomes exponentially better once he's gone, but it's about as morally grey and a fair depiction of war as I've seen a game have yet, right up there with the Brothers in Arms series. Oh no, I disagreed with that part as well. Pretty much the only thing I agreed with in the video was that some of the "fun" moments absolutely should have been cut. I don't think the boss fights created an interesting contrast. I think they were weird and out of place. I don't think Freddie or Anna were bad characters or should have been cut, but the Baron should have been toned down a lot. The boss fights with the tanks and zeppelins were... well, yeah, they felt out of place.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2015 22:00:03 GMT
To clarify, I basically only agree that the baron and some of the "fun" moments should have been toned down or cut. The boos fights and blowing up the giant tank, etc.
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Post by Rock114 on Jun 20, 2015 23:00:41 GMT
I disagree with a lot of that, especially about how he claims Germany to be depicted as an outside evil force while the French/Entente are presented as clearly the good guys. There are several points in the game where German soldiers are depicted as just regular people like Emile and Karl just trying to survive the war, and in the last two acts the French are depicted in a very dark, warmongering light. Off the top of my head: There's the German soldier who helps Emile, as was mentioned in the video, then killed the next the day. Heck, that guy's friends arguably count as well since they didn't shoot Emile, an enemy soldier, just because the guy Emile helped told them not to. The German medic who was Walt's original owner is an all around great guy. He holds no ill will toward Karl even when he's suspected of being a traitor and even gives his life to save Karl and Walt during the French Gas Attack on the town. Karl. That's all that needs to be said about him. For the Allies, the French commanders are depicted as being even worse than the cartoonishly evil Baron as they delight in the massive enemy casualties, including the German who saved Emile. Emile was so sickened by this that he actually burned all of the medals he'd been awarded as a show of protest. French commanders are continuously shown to lead men to their deaths for absolutely no reason whatsoever, as we see in Emile's first and last battles of the war. Especially in that last battle where they're literally ordering their men to climb mountains of corpses to charge directly into enemy machine guns. At best they're incompetent, at worst they don't give a toss about the lives of their men. In fact, when Emile has enough of this and accidentally kills an officer to stop him from sending even more men to senselessly die, the French command has him executed. The Baron's inclusion at first makes the game seem pretty cut and dry/black and white, and I think everyone agrees that the game's narrative becomes exponentially better once he's gone, but it's about as morally grey and a fair depiction of war as I've seen a game have yet, right up there with the Brothers in Arms series. Oh no, I disagreed with that part as well. Pretty much the only thing I agreed with in the video was that some of the "fun" moments absolutely should have been cut. I don't think the boss fights created an interesting contrast. I think they were weird and out of place. I don't think Freddie or Anna were bad characters or should have been cut, but the Baron should have been toned down a lot. The boss fights with the tanks and zeppelins were... well, yeah, they felt out of place. Oh, that? I actually agree with that too.
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