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Post by wakemeup on May 3, 2014 17:26:29 GMT
All haul to Ulfric, you are the High King! In your great honor we drink and we sing! Listen to the man!
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Post by Rock114 on May 3, 2014 17:27:17 GMT
The word you were looking for, Bio, is "hail."
I see that education isn't held in such high regard in Windhelm...
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Post by Rock114 on May 3, 2014 17:28:05 GMT
All haul to Ulfric, you are the High King! In your great honor we drink and we sing! Listen to the man! Yes, let's listen to Bio. "All haul Ulfric to the chopping block," I believe is what he meant. You know, like what was happening in Helgen because Tullius is a badass.
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Post by wakemeup on May 3, 2014 17:31:33 GMT
Listen to the man! Yes, let's listen to Bio. "All haul Ulfric to the chopping block," I believe is what he meant. You know, like what was happening in Helgen because Tullius is a badass. Badass? He was a coward. He didn't even face Ulfric in a real battle. Then, he wanted executioner to cut off the true High King's head, instead of doing it himself, like a real man should do.
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Post by Rock114 on May 3, 2014 17:34:09 GMT
He didn't face Ulfric in a real battle? He's the one who captured Ulfric in the first place. In fact, Ulfric surrendered pretty meekly, too, so so much for him being a badass. Hadvar states that the Legion was getting its ass kicked by the Stormcloaks until Tullius arrived a few months before the beginning of the game. Once Tullius arrived, he turned things around and he practically won the entire civil war. If Alduin hadn't attacked Helgen, the rebellion would have been crushed then and there thanks to Tullius.
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Post by wakemeup on May 3, 2014 17:43:03 GMT
Did you forgot about the ambush part? He attacked like that, because he was clearly scared of Ulfric. Ulfric surrenderd pretty meekly? So that is bad that he didn't want his men slaughtered by the ambushers? He was ready to face the consequences of his choices, that's what a real man does.
And if Tulius was so great, why didn't he fight with Thalmor? In fact, the whole civil war should never happened, rebels and imperials should have get ready for Thalmor together. I can see that both sides have their good and bad sides, but I prefer Ulfric's point of view about Thalmor. That was one of the main factors for chooisng sides for me.
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Post by Bioshock Infinite WD on May 3, 2014 17:54:19 GMT
Besides, he fought the High King honorably, in a challenge, it was not murder!
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Post by Rock114 on May 3, 2014 17:57:37 GMT
Why would Tullius risk losing scores of men in a head on attack against Ulfric, or give him time to escape by announcing his presence? Ambushing an enemy doesn't mean you're afraid of him, it means that you want to maximize his losses while minimizing your own. Tullius may not be the best swordsman in Skyrim, but he all but ended the civil war within months of arriving.
As for the Thalmor, he's preparing to fight them. NOBODY in the Empire, be it in Skyrim, Cyrodiil, or High Rock, likes the Thalmor. The entire reason the White-Gold Concordant was signed was to end the Great War and give the Empire time to recover from the tremendous losses it sustained. Both Ulfric and Tullius share similar views about the Thalmor, Ulfric just takes it a little further. The Legion and the Empire are preparing, but they won't move until they're absolutely ready. Skyrim breaking away from the Empire weakens both Skyrim and the Empire, making the Thalmor's job that much easier when they begin the next war.
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Post by Rock114 on May 3, 2014 18:00:02 GMT
Besides, he fought the High King honorably, in a challenge, it was not murder! False. It was not an honorable challenge when one combatant (Ulfric) had a clear advantage (the Voice) over the other. If it had been just swords? Yeah, then I'd accept his claim to the throne. But Ulfric and Torygg both knew Ulfric would win, so I fail to see the honor.
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Post by Bioshock Infinite WD on May 3, 2014 18:00:53 GMT
But, the High King knew he had the Voice, yet accepted it none the less.
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Post by Rock114 on May 3, 2014 18:02:58 GMT
Because it was tradition to accept the duel, or be dishonored and lose his claim to the throne. Ulfric set up the situation so that no matter what happened, he would win. Shrewd, clever, but not exactly "honorable" in the Nordic sense.
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Post by Bioshock Infinite WD on May 3, 2014 18:05:28 GMT
At least it was a one on one, if he has his men there it would have been unfair, and it seems Torygg does not hold any hatred for him.
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Post by wakemeup on May 3, 2014 18:07:13 GMT
Why would Tullius risk losing scores of men in a head on attack against Ulfric, or give him time to escape by announcing his presence? Ambushing an enemy doesn't mean you're afraid of him, it means that you want to maximize his losses while minimizing your own. Tullius may not be the best swordsman in Skyrim, but he all but ended the civil war within months of arriving. As for the Thalmor, he's preparing to fight them. NOBODY in the Empire, be it in Skyrim, Cyrodiil, or High Rock, likes the Thalmor. The entire reason the White-Gold Concordant was signed was to end the Great War and give the Empire time to recover from the tremendous losses it sustained. Both Ulfric and Tullius share similar views about the Thalmor, Ulfric just takes it a little further. The Legion and the Empire are preparing, but they won't move until they're absolutely ready. Skyrim breaking away from the Empire weakens both Skyrim and the Empire, making the Thalmor's job that much easier when they begin the next war. Okay, I have to admit that I don't remember everything that great, it's been a while since my last playtrough. But you said it yourself, it was Thalmor, who banned Talos. Tulius didn't do anything about it. He maybe had plans to deal with them in the future, but in the meanwhile, Thalmor was making their positinons in Skyrim stronger.
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Post by Rock114 on May 3, 2014 18:08:04 GMT
One on one, when one of those ones can literally shout the other to death as soon as the duel begins? I know that Ulfric finished him with his blade, but using the voice at all took out any fairness the duel may have had.
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Post by Rock114 on May 3, 2014 18:13:28 GMT
Why would Tullius risk losing scores of men in a head on attack against Ulfric, or give him time to escape by announcing his presence? Ambushing an enemy doesn't mean you're afraid of him, it means that you want to maximize his losses while minimizing your own. Tullius may not be the best swordsman in Skyrim, but he all but ended the civil war within months of arriving. As for the Thalmor, he's preparing to fight them. NOBODY in the Empire, be it in Skyrim, Cyrodiil, or High Rock, likes the Thalmor. The entire reason the White-Gold Concordant was signed was to end the Great War and give the Empire time to recover from the tremendous losses it sustained. Both Ulfric and Tullius share similar views about the Thalmor, Ulfric just takes it a little further. The Legion and the Empire are preparing, but they won't move until they're absolutely ready. Skyrim breaking away from the Empire weakens both Skyrim and the Empire, making the Thalmor's job that much easier when they begin the next war. Okay, I have to admit that I don't remember everything that great, it's been a while since my last playtrough. But you said it yourself, it was Thalmor, who banned Talos. Tulius didn't do anything about it. He maybe had plans to deal with them in the future, but in the meanwhile, Thalmor was making their positinons in Skyrim stronger. The Thalmor did indeed ban Talos, but Tullius's hands are tied. He's only in charge of the Fourth Legion, not the Empire as a whole. The Thalmor really wouldn't even be in Skyrim if it weren't for Ulfric making a fuss about the ban of Talos worship. Alvor in Riverwood says that almost everyone who worshiped Talos in Skyrim had their secret shrines they went to, and that the Thalmor weren't dragging people off in the night until Ulfric demanded the right to worship Talos to be returned. The Emperor was forced to crack down on Talos worship in Skyrim, or violate the WGC, which would begin another war and lead to the deaths of tens of thousands of people. I'm not saying I agree with the Thalmor. I hate them, and the ban on Talos worship, but Ulfric is playing right into their hands with his rebellion. He's right to be riled up about it, but in trying to make things better all he did was weaken Skyrim and the Empire as a whole. Ulfric just wants what's best for his people, but in the long run I can't see it doing anything but getting them killed or enslaved by the Dominion. That is why I see the Empire as Skyrim's best hope to weather the oncoming storm of a second Great War.
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