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Post by Rock114 on Jun 29, 2015 22:00:47 GMT
So in recent weeks it's come to my attention that not everyone views Handsome Jack as evil, and that more than a few people attempt to downplay or even outright justify his actions from TPS and even into BL2 (Which, frankly, sounds insane to my ears). So I'm curious as to what this forum thinks of Jack and his actions, and not just the AI in TFTBL (So, obviously, some previous experience with Borderlands will come in handy here). Is he right and justified in what he does? Evil? Misunderstood? Is there any hope of redemption for him? Prooooobably safe to assume spoilers for BL2 and TPS here, so if you don't want to see those then I wouldn't recommend continuing.
In my eye Jack is evil. He wasn't always that bad of a guy as we see in TPS (Where he has actual redeeming traits beyond simply being funny), but by the time the game is over and he's fully turned into Handsome Jack whatever good he might have previously had in him had been burned up by his darker, more evil side. The one that actively enjoyed killing people that was glimpsed at several points through the game. By the time BL2 starts I don't think there was any going back for him. He became irredeemable and had to be put down.
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Post by Autobot Sonic on Jun 29, 2015 22:11:43 GMT
So in recent weeks it's come to my attention that not everyone views Handsome Jack as evil, and that more than a few people attempt to downplay or even outright justify his actions from TPS and even into BL2 (Which, frankly, sounds insane to my ears). So I'm curious as to what this forum thinks of Jack and his actions, and not just the AI in TFTBL (So, obviously, some previous experience with Borderlands will come in handy here). Is he right and justified in what he does? Evil? Misunderstood? Is there any hope of redemption for him? Prooooobably safe to assume spoilers for BL2 and TPS here, so if you don't want to see those then I wouldn't recommend continuing. In my eye Jack is evil. He wasn't always that bad of a guy as we see in TPS (Where he has actual redeeming traits beyond simply being funny), but by the time the game is over and he's fully turned into Handsome Jack whatever good he might have previously had in him had been burned up by his darker, more evil side. The one that actively enjoyed killing people that was glimpsed at several points through the game. By the time BL2 starts I don't think there was any going back for him. He became irredeemable and had to be put down. This. Handsome Jack's pure evil in BL2, but had some redeeming qualities in TPS. But seriously, how can you hate this guy for more than ten seconds with all the funny shit he does?
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Post by Rock114 on Jun 29, 2015 22:18:16 GMT
So in recent weeks it's come to my attention that not everyone views Handsome Jack as evil, and that more than a few people attempt to downplay or even outright justify his actions from TPS and even into BL2 (Which, frankly, sounds insane to my ears). So I'm curious as to what this forum thinks of Jack and his actions, and not just the AI in TFTBL (So, obviously, some previous experience with Borderlands will come in handy here). Is he right and justified in what he does? Evil? Misunderstood? Is there any hope of redemption for him? Prooooobably safe to assume spoilers for BL2 and TPS here, so if you don't want to see those then I wouldn't recommend continuing. In my eye Jack is evil. He wasn't always that bad of a guy as we see in TPS (Where he has actual redeeming traits beyond simply being funny), but by the time the game is over and he's fully turned into Handsome Jack whatever good he might have previously had in him had been burned up by his darker, more evil side. The one that actively enjoyed killing people that was glimpsed at several points through the game. By the time BL2 starts I don't think there was any going back for him. He became irredeemable and had to be put down. This. Handsome Jack's pure evil in BL2, but had some redeeming qualities in TPS. But seriously, how can you hate this guy for more than ten seconds with all the funny shit he does? For me he's just one of those guys that I love to hate. Great villain, fantastic antagonist, but there's nothing good in him. Nothing remotely justifiable once the events of BL2 come around.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2015 23:02:31 GMT
What has he even done in either game?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2015 23:15:15 GMT
I think he's pretty evil, but I'd still prefer he win over people like Moxxy and Lilith, who fucked him over pretty hard, with very little reason.
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Post by [...] on Jun 29, 2015 23:38:16 GMT
I don't hate him but I don't love him too. He's fine and says some funny stuff but that's it. He'll never be my friend, I just can't trust him. That's the reason why I'd always choose to trust Fiona over him because she's a friend.
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Post by Bioshock Infinite WD on Jun 29, 2015 23:40:32 GMT
So in recent weeks it's come to my attention that not everyone views Handsome Jack as evil, and that more than a few people attempt to downplay or even outright justify his actions from TPS and even into BL2 (Which, frankly, sounds insane to my ears). So I'm curious as to what this forum thinks of Jack and his actions, and not just the AI in TFTBL (So, obviously, some previous experience with Borderlands will come in handy here). Is he right and justified in what he does? Evil? Misunderstood? Is there any hope of redemption for him? Prooooobably safe to assume spoilers for BL2 and TPS here, so if you don't want to see those then I wouldn't recommend continuing. In my eye Jack is evil. He wasn't always that bad of a guy as we see in TPS (Where he has actual redeeming traits beyond simply being funny), but by the time the game is over and he's fully turned into Handsome Jack whatever good he might have previously had in him had been burned up by his darker, more evil side. The one that actively enjoyed killing people that was glimpsed at several points through the game. By the time BL2 starts I don't think there was any going back for him. He became irredeemable and had to be put down. This. Handsome Jack's pure evil in BL2, but had some redeeming qualities in TPS. But seriously, how can you hate this guy for more than ten seconds with all the funny shit he does? I hate him as a person, but he is just so funny, I can't truly hate him. It's probably the same thought process that Ramsay Snow fans have, but I get this at least. Also he is still evil in TFTBL! I mean FUCKING HELL! He ruins your relationship with Sasha! UNFORGIVABLE!
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Post by Bioshock Infinite WD on Jun 29, 2015 23:42:05 GMT
I don't hate him but I don't love him too. He's fine and says some funny stuff but that's it. He'll never be my friend, I just can't trust him. That's the reason why I'd always choose to trust Fiona over him because she's a friend. Same, I knew that would be a bad choice, and I was right, sure he doesn't fuck you over at the start, but its clear he has more control then you want him to have, and it will fuck you over at a point.
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Post by sos on Jun 29, 2015 23:48:37 GMT
He's evil. I just don't think he's the great super evil he's sometimes painted to be. Even as he's dying he's holding onto the notion that he wanted to rid Pandora of bandits and dangerous creatures, which isn't a bad thing at all. There's just so much aggression from both sides that the Vault Hunters will continue to think that Jack is irredeemable evil and Jack will continue to think that the Vault Hunters are nothing better than kill and loot bandits.
He badly needed a middle man or right hand man to analyze situations for him though. Someone that'll say nope, that group isn't bandits, they want the best for Pandora too. A facilitator that could play both sides, that could also communicate with the Vault Hunters and the Sanctuary crowd and level with them. Jack needs the Warrior to wipe out the plague of the planet as quickly as possible. Then they could take a census of sorts across Pandora to weed out the good eggs from the masses of bandit camps, give their findings to the middle man, who would in turn give it to Jack who would utilize the Warrior to burn designated areas to the ground once the evacuation of good guys from said designated areas happened.
I think I just solved the Borderlands universe.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2015 23:57:38 GMT
He's evil. I just don't think he's the great super evil he's sometimes painted to be. Even as he's dying he's holding onto the notion that he wanted to rid Pandora of bandits and dangerous creatures, which isn't a bad thing at all. There's just so much aggression from both sides that the Vault Hunters will continue to think that Jack is irredeemable evil and Jack will continue to think that the Vault Hunters are nothing better than kill and loot bandits. He badly needed a middle man or right hand man to analyze situations for him though. Someone that'll say nope, that group isn't bandits, they want the best for Pandora too. A facilitator that could play both sides, that could also communicate with the Vault Hunters and the Sanctuary crowd and level with them. Jack needs the Warrior to wipe out the plague of the planet as quickly as possible. Then they could take a census of sorts across Pandora to weed out the good eggs from the masses of bandit camps, give their findings to the middle man, who would in turn give it to Jack who would utilize the Warrior to burn designated areas to the ground once the evacuation of good guys from said designated areas happened. I think I just solved the Borderlands universe. Do they really, though? I mean, in Borderlands 2, sure. In Borderlands 1, and the pre-sequel, though? I don't think so. In Borderlands 1, they were nothing but guns for hire, who would do what you wanted, so long as you were ready to pay their fees. In TPS, they straight up disfigured a guy who wanted to bring order to the planet. Granted, Jack wanted to bring order the same way that the Romans wanted to bring order, but his goal was righteous, and his motivations were noble. I'd say that the vault hunters want what's best for them.
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Post by Rock114 on Jun 30, 2015 1:23:40 GMT
I think he's pretty evil, but I'd still prefer he win over people like Moxxy and Lilith, who fucked him over pretty hard, with very little reason. They had a very good reason to fuck him over. He had a huge, planet destroying superweapon at his disposal. They only destroyed that after he airlocked four of his scientists on the suspicion one of them might have been a traitor and he remarked how good it felt to kill them. I wouldn't want a weapon like that in the hands of someone who does those things.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2015 1:36:40 GMT
I think he's pretty evil, but I'd still prefer he win over people like Moxxy and Lilith, who fucked him over pretty hard, with very little reason. They had a very good reason to fuck him over. He had a huge, planet destroying superweapon at his disposal. They only destroyed that after he airlocked four of his scientists on the suspicion one of them might have been a traitor and he remarked how good it felt to kill them. I wouldn't want a weapon like that in the hands of someone who does those things. That's the exact same reasoning which keeps the modern countries safe.
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Post by thatstoomuchfestivity on Jun 30, 2015 1:43:43 GMT
They had a very good reason to fuck him over. He had a huge, planet destroying superweapon at his disposal. They only destroyed that after he airlocked four of his scientists on the suspicion one of them might have been a traitor and he remarked how good it felt to kill them. I wouldn't want a weapon like that in the hands of someone who does those things. That's the exact same reasoning which keeps the modern countries safe. Except this one could literally pound planets into oblivion, as well as any other nearby planet he would've pleased. And there are some fucked up leaders, but I find it hard to believe any of them are as hellbent on their goals as Handsome Jack.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2015 1:48:21 GMT
That's the exact same reasoning which keeps the modern countries safe. Except this one could literally pound planets into oblivion, as well as any other nearby planet he would've pleased. And there are some fucked up leaders, but I find it hard to believe any of them are as hellbent on their goals as Handsome Jack. I don't think he was THAT fucked up as Jack. After Handsome Jack was a thing, sure, he was evil. Before? No more evil than many real world characters.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2015 1:51:14 GMT
In TPS he's not that evil, hell, at the start he's actually a pretty decent person, by the end he's right where he is in BL2 though. In BL2 he's scoop out someones eyes with a spork and laugh about it evil, although I can almost see where he's coming from, Pandora could benefit from some sort of law, just not how he's doing it (slaughtering everyone who disagrees with him or he considers a bandit).
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